Where should we start?

[Juno]

From current NZ national league 04 rules (can we just call them NZ rules, and get over it any way I degress)

26. RESTART AFTER GOAL
1. After a goal has been scored the team who have conceded the goal will take the
restart throw. The player taking the throw must be positioned with their kayak in
near the centre of the playing area. The referee will blow the whistle to restart
play. There is no requirement for the player to hold the ball above their head.
2. All players of both teams must start with their bodies in their own half.
3. Goal-Line Restart Variation - where applicable, the restart after goal is taken as a
goal-line throw by the team that conceded the goal.

[Juno]

This may not be the right channels but atleast we will gain a few more peoples opinions than that are privy to rule development. Don't get me wrong I enjoy playing NZ's 'changes' to ICF but I really think we should get one thing sorted for next year. Especially with our elite players at every age group expecting to play some sort of international competition now and in the future. Where are we going to take our restarts? Is it not worthwhile for all involved at any level that we play centreline restarts like the rest of the world for every major comps and that little variation is kept to local comps.

[James]

I believe that we should stick to the goal line restarts........After all it makes a faster more exciting game. I don't hold with the idea that it hamstrings our international teams, those players are hopefully adaptible enough to be able to change to a centre line restart as required.....we have plenty of training camps for that.

The Goal Line restart is just like what happens when the offensive teams gets a shot blocked and turned over.......suddenly there is a chance for a lightning quick counter-attack.

[Aaron]

Personally I would prefer to play center line restarts. I don't believe the goal line restarts make the game more exciting. I think it limits the type of play and hands a definite advantage to a team with more speed over one that has a structured offence.

It limits some of the attacking options. The attacking team is unwilling to commit the backline because even if you do score you risk giving away a fast break. I don't think you should be punished for scoring.

It means a team has no chance to regroup after a goal. Often games are decided with a few goals scored in quick sucession after a team has been unable to bring the ball out of their own half.

Often entire games consist of one team pressing and the other team being pressed with nothing in between. We get games that are nothing more than press and fast break.

As a ref it is difficult to signal to the bench and still watch the game after a goal has been scored. Often a mix up in scoring occurs or the ref misses some of the action.


The Goal Line restart is just like what happens when the offensive teams gets a shot blocked and turned over.......suddenly there is a chance for a lightning quick counter-attack.
I disagree with this statement. When a shot is blocked it very rarely falls into the arms of the goalie as it does after a goal is scored. If it does the player with the ball usually has a defender putting preassure on them. With a goal line restart the defender has to give up 1m. This makes it far easier to get a quick counter-attack after a goal is scored.

I don't expect that all that many people will agree with me. Like I have said before, the thing players dislike most about the rules is change. There has been the same discussion in ICF circles about this with the majority of them wanting to stick with the status quo and keep their center line restarts.

I don't think there is a clear right and wrong answer to this one only preferences but my preference is for center line.

[JenniG]

I think we should adopt centre-line restarts at all National Level competitions. I totally agree with the points Aaron made about being able to commit more players on the offence.

In my opinion, the idea that centre-line restarts are slower than goal-line restarts is because we are not used to them at top level.

Centre-line restarts are often used in lower level games to give weaker teams more of a chance against better teams, who could otherwise prevent them from ever leaving their half. Teams seem to move onto goal-line restarts once they are at a higher level. This leaves us believing that centre-line restarts are slow.

At international level, centre-line restarts are just as fast as goal-line restarts. If you get a goal, and don't turn and go back fast enough, people can shoot a goal from halfway or close to, straight over your head, while you are chasing back to goal (this happened to the NZ womens team). I think this could easily happen in local comps, where pools are shorter and more people can shoot from halfway. So, centre-line restarts don't slow the game.
Its only slowed down when a ref chooses to be particularly picky and make sure that people are exactly stationary in the middle of the pool. If there is leniency in this, and there will be the more it is reffed, centre-line restarts will be just as exciting as goal-line.

Last year I voted for goal-line restarts for National League, but I have converted.
Thats my :twocents:
Jenni

[James]

How do we know who votes in this poll? I don't think we should take too much notice of just the vote, as any-one from anywhere in the world can vote on this! I think if you have an opinion write a note as well to support your stance! :confused:

[vish]

What overwheming support was there for people to initiate goal line restarts in this country? It wasn't demanded by the playing population. Now we're stuck with it. There's no objective evidence that it's better than centreline restarts, it's all opinion. Throw it out! *toys flying out of cot at great speed...*If you want to play goal line restarts, then train that way, we don't care. The rules originally specified centre restarts, and continued internationally in that fashion, and the stubborn insistence that we cater as a country to this :worship:cult following by formalising it in our rules is unreasonable. Who cares who votes for the poll?:bang: Nobody can convince people to drop this mutant rule anyway. :waah:

*end of tantrum- resume logical discussion at your leisure*
:p

[Robyn G]

For what it's worth, I reckon that NZ needs to change back to centre line restarts.
Polo is a pretty instinctive game, you've gotta respond fast to game situations otherwise you get scored against.
We have brought up a generation of players whose first instinct after a goal is scored is:
a)if youv'e just been scored against, to fast break straight away, and try to take advantage of disorganised opposition.
b)if youv'e just scored, to turn around quickly to prevent fast break.

first instinct according to ICF rules should be:
a)if you've just been scored against, you should be getting back to halfway and in attack mode, but against a team already set up in defence.
b)if you've just scored, you should be mentally preparing to be organising your defence, and trying to work out how to get a turn over.

seems a bit backwards doesn't it?
I agree with James that a good player should be able to adapt, but to expect a whole team to be adapting to something we are building into their instinctive knowledge of polo is a bit of an ask ain't it?

This year with our women (proudly) representing us with a fantastic chance of WINNING the World Games, I strongly think at the very least women only should be playing centre line restarts for National League.
IF YOU AGREE AND YOU'RE A WOMEN ACT ON THIS THROUGH ANY AVENUE YOU CAN.

JUst one last thing - with the greatest of respect to you James,
from my perspective as a (very new) coach to auckland women, can you honestly tell me the way you coach the Valkyries wouldn't change at all if the game changed back to centre line restarts?
if you say no - sorry i don't belive you :-) !!

[SeanT]

Jenni Jenni Jenni!
the reason that goal was scored was BECAUSE you all turned around and got into your own half quickly, before you got a goalie in, hence the opposition could take the restart straight away and shoot on an open goal. The solution is to not all retire immediately but have someone muck around for a few more seconds then turn and paddle back, start delayed, goalie in, so no shot possible on an open goal. As long as the mucking around happens early while the ref is signalling the goal etc, then when the restart is being contemplated you're actively trying to get back you're unlikely to get penalised.
The Dutch men did this very cleverly when their goalie took a GPS, as it went in another player paddled up the pool, congratulated the shooter who was racing back into goal, then slowly turned and paddled back into his own half. All very natural and normal but ensured that his goalie was in before a restart could happen - very clever use of the rules / restart.

But yes if people find it hard to adapt to this then playing CL restarts more will aid them in this - just convince the comp organiser that thats what most people want. Likewise if you want GL restarts
While CL restarts may be "quick enough", GL restarts are clearly quicker (not saying better) and anyone denying this is a bit silly...

I assume by "being picky" with respect to the restart rule that what Jenni really mean is the ref following the ICF rule (novel concept!). Of course if the PLAYERS followed the restart rule conditions then the ref wouldn't get the blame for "holding things up", not that its slower anyway... ;-)

Just so as everyone knows my preference while playing is for GL restarts but I wouldn't care if every comp made up its own mind and the bigger comps all played CL - its just not what I'd "vote" for :wavey:

[Ali M.]

Sean, I think we all realise why we were scored on in that particular instance but I don't think that was the point Jenni was trying to make. We all had trained what to do after we scored a goal but it's just so against our instincts to do this. I think if we want to be the best in the world, any possible advantage we can get is awesome. If we have to spend time praticing what to do in a centre line restart, it means we are spending less time on other things.

I think it would be awesome if we could play centre line restarts at least in the womens grade for NL next year. I know it would definitely be great for the NZ reps and I don't think it would take away from the game for the rest of the players.

[rach]

I agree with Ali and Jen, Center line restarts at national league would be a great opportunity to practise. The more things that we can integrate into polo in New Zealand the better as we won't have to learn them the hard way in an international competition.

[James]

I agree with Ali and Jen, Center line restarts at national league would be a great opportunity to practise. The more things that we can integrate into polo in New Zealand the better as we won't have to learn them the hard way in an international competition.tongue-in-cheek
does this mean we should change our refereeing interpretations for every game we play in NL.......maybe one game every time you tackle a player firmly you get called up, next game we allow the restarted ball to be contested within a meter.......perhaps the last game we allow full obstuction all over the court but cut-out any paddles within cooee of an opposition player! Maybe you could offer some other helpful suggestions to help us deal with overseas refereeing. Mind you we will have to be quite adaptible to deal with several variations of rules during a single tournament.

OK even better: how about we allocate a nation to each of our elite referees....that way at least we will know what to expect from that referee. I am guessing Sean will want to be an NZ ref.....so that will mean having a ref starting with GL restarts. Vish could be an Aussie ref: hard tackles allowed/ but at least she will cut out the obstuction. We could get a 5 year old to do some of the " nations" styles......that way people can bring their kids to comps and they can take a full part.

must stop now.....I am getting carried away

[vish]

Maybe we could just admit that the goal line restart has not placed our men's team in the top 6 in the world, and that expecting to adapt to a style of play that isn't supported in your own country is hardly going to see you on the podium.

*Where's the scratchy cat smiley when you need one?!!! CLAWS- RETRACT!!!!!*

[James]

Maybe we could just admit that the goal line restart has not placed our men's team in the top 6 in the world, and that expecting to adapt to a style of play that isn't supported in your own country is hardly going to see you on the podium.

*Where's the scratchy cat smiley when you need one?!!! CLAWS- RETRACT!!!!!*
Funny how obviously adaptible our womens are........maybe the time has come for the men to listen to the women. I am looking forward to having more women coach our elite men's teams....bash us around the head and point us in the right direction.

or just perhaps there are other factors at play here with our lack of men's results??

[Ali M.]

I definitely don't think changing to centre line restarts will siginificantly improve our international results, but surely every little bit helps.

James, I think there's a difference between centre line restarts and the obstruction rules etc you mentioned. They are mainly due to differing interpretations of rules, whereas restarts is a completely different rule.

[Pdog]

Dont care, dont care, dont care, you all deal with the niggle, even though i usually love the niggle ;) ill just play the game k?

[DeanM]

I enjoy both variations. I think I like goal line restarts better precisely because of the need to quickly adjust from offensive to defensive posture (or vice versa) very quickly. A player gets a distinct advantage if he can think/react more quickly than the other guy, and there's a value in making that instinctive to some degree.

At Oceania Champs last year I had a discussion about this issue with Brett Houghton. He said that the Aussies had played goal line restarts for similar reasons that we had adopted it (more fun, faster game) but that they abandoned it because in international play their teams were suffering from not being used to playing defense as effectively as they would have otherwise.

If we were to switch the Center Line restarts for NL I would be happy - canoe polo is such a great game that this would not significantly impact it's fun factor. It will still be cool to play and watch.

Plus there will be more opportunity for hand-slapping, air-punching, arm-raising and other celebratory exuberance after a goal is scored.

[Jimmy]

You left out the occasional "Terry Tate, stand over your victim and tell them how it is celebration" Deano.

I'm for end line restarts, they are faster, you get more playing time out of the same game slot and it partly eliminates that fun part of the game known as gamesmanship (more commonly called, cheating to slow up the restart).

For those of you who don't believe it is faster, all you have to do is play after a Singapore vs Japan women's game to see how potentially slower center line restarts can be. Admittedly the score was about 27-0, but they still only played for 20 minutes and the game took over 40 minutes. In NZ competitions we can't allow that, we don't have the pool time. Therefore by using end line restarts we are maximizing our playing time which is better for experience than anything else.

That is unless we don't stop the clock for center line restarts, in which case:
say the score in an average game is 5-3
that's 8 goals scored a game
minimum 15 seconds lost per goal (easily alot more with "sportsmanship")
2 minutes lost per game
up to 10 game in a tournament
so total of around 20 minutes playing time lost in a tournament
There is a whole game time lost to each team who played. Wouldn't it help our international players more to have not lost that playing time?

More playing time for your money against the top players in the country, that is why we should stick to end line restarts.

[vish]

Or should that be coach vish... (I'll be getting my behind walloped again in Open Grade 2005 James, you can come down our half and have a few words if you like!). For the record, I officially believe that the men's team have been stuffed by the draw, and that going to Brazil was the best thing the women's team ever did. Sorry for being a stirrer, but I think the goal line restart isn't actually worth fighting for when we've got the rest of the world to take on.

I agree with Ali, every bit helps. I agree with Dean, and I'm going to practise my High fives because obviously if you coast past and miss, you're going to look a bit silly. First I will practise my shooting, catching and passing so there's actually something to high five about... I'm afraid of Jimmy. Doesn't blood stain the ball?

I'll be writing educational material for Northern players to learn the rules over Christmas, so I'll be interested to see what ends up happening. I will put a question in the booklet about pros and cons of centreline restarts/endline restarts- there'll be a link in it to this thread.
:wavey:

[SeanT]

Ali, Jenni was clearly illustrating that goal as an example of how CL restarts may be just as fast as GL restarts. My point was that that is an example of a poor restart which the team that first scored ideally shouldn’t have allowed. The way they should have initially defended it (IMO) was to delay the restart in the manner described. Therefore with more skill in this style of restart, the restart will be slower, not just as fast as she argues.



I don’t at all disagree that playing CL restarts more will aid defending tactics in this situation and I don’t really disagree with any other points that people have been making here – but you have to use the right logic for the case.



At the risk of stirring things a little more (which honestly isn’t the prime intention) you could argue that the NZ women in this case didn’t “revert to GL restart instinct” and get caught out. Had this been the case the players on the court would have all been picking up the opponents 1/1 while shuffling a goalie back etc, then realized they were playing the wrong restart (some would have been still in the opposition half – that’s where all the opposition had to be) so the restart would have been slowed etc.

I’d suggest rather that the team was celebrating a damn fine goal against a very good team, forgot their tactics for a short period, then the buggers capitalized and scored. And yes, you could then use this as an example where, if you played it more (CL restarts) maybe this lapse wouldn’t have happened – I don’t disagree.

BUT, to me the real lesson of that particular situation is to stay focused on the game at all times (no offense at all intended to anyone, just trying to be brutally honest, proud of the NZ women team/players, I was celebrating as much as you blah blah….! J ).



Just as an aside – I think these sort of player forums is how people should be trying to get the style of restart they want in various comps. While I agree with James points re the validity of voters/numbers etc, people should note that ~45% of said voters see some role for GL restarts – so to say no-one wants them might be misrepresenting the situation a little. If one style of restart then becomes the only supported version I’m sure the other will fall from the rules (and if it doesn’t – who cares cos no-one will be using it anyway)


I would guess MCPA will ask the players in the ChCh comp where they want to restart next yr and be guided by that (but a committee decision blah blah obviously)

[JenniG]

Okay, so my logic was flawed and my argument not well written but I still reckon centre-line restarts don't have to be slow and boring, they are good because i say so! (you can't argue with the logic of no logic!!)

[SeanT]

Thats much better! :wavey:

[Barny]

You used to like goal line more so did you just change because you beleive it would improve your chances over seas?

From my perspective just as someone who plays for fun and not worried about playing internationally at this stage anyway. I see goal line restarts as way funner ,faster and just a lot better alltogether and don't like centre starts half as much however I can see that if I was going to go to worlds or world games that I would rather play centre lines starts because it would mean you were already used to it and didn't have to get used to playing differently for one tournament which obviously puts you at a disadvantage against teams that play centre line restarts all the time.


<Barny on a different comp

[Ben]

I am a strong supporter of CL restarts. For starters, I hate the cheeky goals that get scored on the break from an opposing teams goal. I don't think these goals are representative of the game that is going on and are just cheap goals often scored after some nice set offense. A goal against shouldn't be the thanks you get for pulling out something with a bit of class.

It also often results in people who have been beaten fair and square scoring on you. If you get a nice pick set on you and are left halfway up the court you shouldn't then get to score a cheap goal thru good luck from your mistake.

In general this doesn't happen off missed shots in my experience as the ball rarely falls so cleanly to a player who can send the fastbreak pass. Even if it does the breaking players tend to check slightly until they are sure their team picked up the ball giving the defense a chance to react instead of being able to break at full noise as soon as the ball passes thru the face of the goal.

I also think people should be able to celebrate their goals for a couple of reasons. First I think it gives momentum to a team, kiwis are pretty scared to do this anyhow and i think it costs us even more to suddenly have to be thinking about defense.

The other reason is it can get inside the other teams head. Tom (one of the NZ goalies in Japan, hopefully he doesn't mind me bringing this up, he is a damn good goalie regardless...) mentioned that he hated the opposing team celebrating their goals and he felt it did have an effect in terms of intimadation/confidence. This is a psychological advantage we completely missed out on in Japan as we don't do this. Not sure we want to see it over done at a social level but at a highly competitive level it is probably an issue.

I also think from a aesthetic level, CL restarts appeal a lot more, we aren't scoring 50 goals each in a game, most even(ish) games are relatively low scoring. GL restarts just seem odd, i don't think it slows the game greatly and i don't really think it is an issue anyhow. You're talking minmal time that is usually taken by someone dribbling up the middle of the pool anyhow. Also tatically it is a more interesting place to start...

Most of the arguments I can think of a the moment... end the cheap goals...

[mike1982]

the last time i started from the center was when i couldnt roll and it was good when we switched to goal line as it made our game faster, now im playing at a higher level i would be keen for some center line restarts in the NL as it would make it more a game of skill on attack and defence rather fast breaks. i understand there will be a time issue but im sure it can be worked around like maybe not stopping time if a team is already 10 goals ahead but thats another thread all together.
i cant be assed listing all the reasons as they are already written in all the other post's which are pro centerline.

Mike

[becks.c]

I would like to see centre line restarts at all major national competitions.

I agree entirely with Aaron's post earlier in the thread (pg1), I think he has made his points very well.

[Alan]

I have been in favour of centre line restarts for years,I think we need to make the change and soon.We need to get a set of rules sorted out and start playing to them. Players are getting very confused, at the College games on the weekend we had players going back to halfway for a penalty goal shot and not the 6 metre line
CANT WE ADOPT ICF RULES AND GET ON WITH THE GAME SO THAT PLAYERS AND REFS KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.

[Freya]

Yeah I'm all for center line re-starts at National comps. I have no big argurments, it's just what I like. After a few years of playing internationally and within NZ I find I switch from one to the other quite easily now but at the start it was very hard. Tactics are different from a centerline restart and it seems like all the women want to play that way for NL so lets do that.

[Tonille]

I'm pro centreline restarts. I agree with Aaron's earlier comments. I also think that there is a whole set of plays that we don't get to experiment with in NZ due to goal line restarts - eg pressing off a centreline, pressure on the first two passes off a centreline restart, offensive plays using the centreline restart etc.

[Juno]

Thought I might just add a final comment to thank those that voted on the poll and submited there comments. From the poll we can see a clear majoity of players wanted centre line restarts even when adding 10% of those wanting half and half to those that wanted goaline or we could just discard them as I am not a statistion (if that is the correct spelling).

Hopefully most players have realised that they are now restarting in the centre and the transition back to centreline restarts has gone pretty smoothly. With the school kids adapting quickly to the rule out schools finals and National League games still being a fast and great game to watch. With comments coming from those watching that it is now alot more obvious when a goal is scored.

My only niggle would be the refs who are making teams start in exactly the centre of the pool when they are gaining no clear advantage starting behind or slightly forwar or to the side of the centre point. Just blow the whistle or we get into the argument about losing playing time, but that's another post.

[SeanT]

Just to temper Junos belief that we're all starting Centerline and what wonderful world it is :D

1) MCPA asked the players of our local A and B grade comp which restart they wanted. Where a preference was expressed 39 prefered GL, 7 CL, no response by 46. Outcome - ChCh Winter comp A and B grades are using GL as default restart. (note our Nat league open grade teams don't play in these grades, these players are playing CL as this is the format for NL - no vote taken)

2) When using the CL restart option, the rules state the restart is in the center of the pool. From memory, this is the exact unchanged ICF rule. While I must say I'm not a stickler on it, its up to the ref at the time as to what constitutes an advantage etc and there are certainly limits on deviation that I'll accept as a ref. The BIGGEST problem by far IMO and as expressed by others, is PLAYERS making no attempt to comply with the rules (often dare I say it cos they've never read them) so the restart whistle doesn't go, but the Ref gets the blame!! Nat League players should all read this rule. I'd suggest Nat League finals is no place to expect the ref to take the time to teach them to teams......

3) Interesting that the school teams seem to able to adapt quickly to CL restarts.......!:p

4) What a pathetic game we've got if the only way we can tell a goals been scored is that we see people paddling back to their own half!

Don't take this the wrong way - I'm not meaning to attacking CL at all, just providing perspective....... I'm not getting any younger and enjoy the rest...did I say that? oppps (smack) naughty boy!!:wavey:

[Juno]

Example 1 : I viewed at North Island B-grade comp. Defening team had fallen back into tight zone and offensive team were already to restart but the player with the ball was maybe 1/2 a metre forward of the line and was made to paddle back until exactly on the line and by exactly I mean the ref was indicating like they were trying to back a car hard up against a wall.

Example 2 : Defensive team was again back in zone slightly looser this time and the offensive team were this time about 1/2 a metre behind the line and the player with the ball was holding it up and looking at the ref with the ball held up (I know that the ball does not need to be held up, but seems to be a natural reaction for some) wanting to restart again but ended up taking a couple of stokes with their free hand before the whistle was blown.

I know what the rules say and have read the centreline rule over again to make sure that what I am playing and coaching is correct. But it is frustraiting when the ref, ref this rule to the exact millimetre. We are playing a game that involves fluid and it is often not the easiest to be in the exact postition, please just let the game flow if no one is to gain advantage or vice versa disadvantage from it blow the whistle.

Just a little note if a spectator does not understand the signall for a goal or cannot see the scoreboard. The ball bounces in and out of the goal rapidly or bounces off the bar, a restart from goal line or fast break occurs how do they know what happened if in both cases the ball is passed back to the goalie. It is not always so obvious.

When did I ever say we all play centreline restarts it definately has it's uses. Training for fast breaks and local leagues where pool space is minimal. I am glad that we have retained it in our rules, but even more glad that we play centrelines at a inter-club/school and national levels.

[base]

I can't agree with you Juno

The games you watched at Secondary Schools Nationals were senior level on the outside 50 metre pool

Some of the CL restarts for the junior grades on the inside pool were painful to watch and the game time lost was unneccessary

All sec school games should use GL restarts, but then no one asked the Schools for their opinion

likewise I suspect your replies to the poll are 99% from National League or NZ players

[Juno]

Unfortuantly everyone must play to the same rules and with more and more schools players involved in NZCPA Junior tours it would be a step backwards for them not to be playing centreline restarts at schools finals. Although it may be an idea to use goaline restarts for the Junior games as this rule is available.

I would have to disagree with you your comment about the polling results, as if you have a look at the other threads Junior/Schools players are actively making comments and would say registred their vote in the poll. If you also look at the members list it is made up of a good cross section of players.

[tinkerbell]

I think the more important part of this discussion is trying to help the players who dont fully understand centreline restarts, whatever the percentage may be, to become more competent with them.

Schools in my opinion is the perfect place to start the introduction because those players will in time progress up to the higher levels of playing.
I can speak from experience that people learning goal line restarts are still just as painfully slow as those learning centreline restarts.

As with most new systems it will take a bit for people to catch on to, but it cant be all that bad as much of the rest of the world has been using centreline restarts for a while without much complaint.

For coaches and referees to be bagging centreline restarts to their players is no help for anyone, as this is not going to make the players better at taking the restarts, meaning they will still be slowed down by the ref trying to help them get it right.

As a ref at schools nationals in both senior and junior pools i found that the biggest thing that slowed the game down was that when a team returned the ball to half court they would stop 3-5m short everytime, even after they had been told to move up everytime previously.

I do believe that some refs are being too accurate with the "near the centre of the pool" we must remember that the wording has been changed from "In" to "near" for some reason and not to be too pedantic.

Just my :twocents:

Dave

[Owen]

Hi everyone, hope all are well and see most of you later this year at christchurch.
It makes no difference when reffing or playing, if the player taking the restart is on or near the centre line, as long as they do not have an advantage.
If reffing, most refs should allow this, especially if the defending team has retreated into a zone defence and are not attacking the ball.

If you are reffing, please take this into account, talk to other players - refs etc, and help each other to play or ref to the "near" wording and let the game flow, after all, it is a fast moving, contact game.
There are plenty of reffs and players anyone can approach so please do if you have any q's.

Thats my 2 cents.
Anyway all is well so see you later.:wavey:
Eoin

[mike1982]

its just an observation but i think the scores are a lot closer this year than last in a lot of the games especially between teams like Vikings and Hurricanes - 1st and 9th at nationals last year. I think this is because we have taken out the fast break from a goal ability that some teams with fast players have also allowing a team to commit more to an attack knowing if they score they wont be put on the back foot as soon as it drops into the goalie's hands.
Apart from the reffing and understanding by younger players which will come with time and practice I think it has been good so far.

[James]

Just a note on the V vs. HB results:

The Vikings team of this year is a far cry from last years team.....Not to mention that the Hurricanes are the best men's team for quite a few years out of HB.

Actually I would go a step further and say that the standard of men's polo in the North Island has slipped this year. It seems to me that a basic understanding of a lot of the fundamentals of canoe polo are not there! We are only getting away with it because the other teams are also crap. The elite players in teams are complacent in their ability without really pushing themselves, I only hope that some of the youth coming through are going to start pushing.

To go back to the Vikings scenario, I would say that we have actually benefited from the new centre-line restarts, as we lost most of our fast players to Expose. Yet we are still able to score by committing our 5 into an effective (sometimes) offence. Fast breaks are still prolific as most shots put up by the majority of teams (in excess of 75%) are misses anyway.

Just my opinion.

[richk]

Have been reading this thread with interest, as someone who learned to play with goal-line restarts but has been playing with center-line restarts the last few years, I have to say that I prefer the CL restart.

Someone made a point about how it takes a long time for juniors and new players to get to the centre line, fair enough, but after a couple of weeks of playing they have the skills to get back into their own half quickly.

If a team is slow getting back into their own half, the referee has the power to do something about it, if its from a lack of skill, ok, if its a tactical thing then the referee can penalise, Ive seen it happen.

As a referee its sometimes very difficult to signal to the bench that a goal has been scored, and signal who it was that scored when playing a GL restart, suddenly the game is underway without you having seen who it was who scored.

As a player, you have time to breathe a little, talk tactiks, and orginise your defence on the way back from scoring a goal, something that I believe makes for a more organised and structured game, rather than a mad dash from one end to the other.

I hope you adapt the centre-line restart, IMO its a much better way of playing the game.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings

Rich

[becks.c]

I think it would be really great if each NL team sat down together and went through the rules before the finals tournament. Even Just one session would be great.

A team mate and I were reviewing some simplified rules for our local grades, and we got to talking about some of the fundamental rules (illegal kayak tackle, illegal holding, illegal use of paddle) and it was really interesting how after reading the actual wording, and talking together about what it might mean, we were able to understand the rules with more clarity.

It might seem really boring to read the rules, but even if you just pick a few key ones and go over them, you might be surprised at how much your game benefits from your understanding the parameters you play within.

An as for CL - Most often I find the game is delayed by the restarting players not knowing where the centre is. - Usually this is where the ref is standing: bring the ball right up, we don't bite all the time!