Referees

[Mike]

Just a quick question on referees for the Worlds. Do they have to be non players, or can a player from one of the teams going ref for that country?

I know it's not the ideal situation, but in the interests of keeping costs down, it is easier not to have to bring another body.

If anyone knows, can they reply here.

Thanks,
Mike.

[Frits]

The referees for the World Championships must be non-playing ICF qualified referees. The federations entering the Worlds with 1 or 2 teams must bring at least one referee.

With the Worlds in Japan and playing at 4 playing areas the number of available referees can become a problem. Referees need to anticipate on being appointed for a game at another playing area during matches of their own federation! Especially if the referee is appointed for another task in a team.



The ICF hopes and expects that in the interest of the participating teams federations will do their best to enter more than the minimum of referees.



Frits Jager

ICF CPC

[Ralf]

Hi Frits,
How will you get more referees than the minimum to the worlds , when it is so expensive to go there?
It is a problem for every nation to get referees for this tournaments because anybody has to pay by himself.Also for me, you know that I made all worlds and
europeans(only Ireland I missed because we got our second baby), it is not easy to go to japan. The costs are so high for the flights and thats not all you have to pay for.
For the future it will be much heavier to find referees to travel to the worlds.
And that means that the quality of refereeing will go down.How will you get more referees than the minimum when nobody pays for them?
I will go to japan and do my best refereeing there ,but if its to expensive for me,and without support, I can´t.
Maybe the ICF has to think about it and they will invite a group of referees
for worlds and pay, together with the nation that has the worlds in that year,some money for their travel or their location(not all!)
I know that it is not easy, but I think that we must find a better way to hold
good quality in refereeing at this tournaments.

Bye, Ralf (ICF Referee of germany)
Sorry for my not so good english

[Odo]

On www.canoe-polo.com (http://www.canoe-polo.com) (the ICF Canoe Polo Committee site), there are lists of the qualified referees, assessors and officials. However, these lists are dated at MAY-2002.

Does anyone know where we can find a current list of qualified people?

Thanks,
John O'D.

[Curly]

Ralf, your english as usual is very good!!

GB has 2 non-playing, non-coaching refs going - Lynn and Myself

Between the 2 of us we will be paying over 3,000 euros to attend the tournament. Cost means that we are only going for a week, no visit to tokyo or anything.

We will be paying this out of our own pockets. I have spoken since Mechelen Europeans that people like myself and Lynn, will travel to these events because we love the sport, but there is NO WAY, I will miss GB games on pitch one to referee on pitch 4.

If the ICF needs "volunteer" referees then some kind of compromise must be made. I don't have an answer for this, but think that the problem will solve itself with not many teams attending in Japan.

see you all there,

curly

[Frits]

For the most recent information on ICF referees and officials please visit: www.canoeicf.com (http://www.canoeicf.com/), canoe polo news 19 February 2004.

Kind regards,
Frits
ICF CPC

[becks.c]

New Zealand is bringing one referee whos sole role will be refereeing. The players in the Snr teams travelling to the championships will be funding the referee's airfare & accommodation for the World champs.


I agree with Curly and Ralf - definately!

At our national level tournaments in NZ, suitably qualified refs receive reimbursement for their expenses on a per game basis. This has encouraged more referees to attempt for qualification and raised the level overall of refereeeing.

[Ralf]

@Curly and Becks.c
Thank you that you agree with me!

@Curly: you know me as referee the same as I know you and Lynn.

We all love this sport but now I´am father of two nice little children and
I love them too.It is not easy for me to go to Japan. You know how expensive
it is and you and Lynn have no child ( or I didn´t knew it) and it is not easy for you to pay 3000 € for one week.What will be , if non of the good qualified
referees could come to a world championchip.What will you do ICF?

I hope that I can find a way for me to pay for this worlds.

It is not so positiv that Frits doesn´t make a reply to this thread but
showing a link for odo ( nothing against you Odo), where the new list
of referees and officials is placed.
Thanks Frits, for your comment!

[Frits]

Dear John, Ralf, Curly and all other canoe polo friends.



I enjoy participating in this forum, but I also need to take in consideration that I am also representing the ICF.
To John, I only wanted to guide you to the ICF site where the list of referees is published.
To Curly, I do agree that it is everyone’s concern that the Worlds best canoe players get the best referees and other circumstances so they can perform at their best. I can also understand that referees from federations have the good feeling of looking to the games of the own nation. Taken in consideration the possible situation in Japan, the ICF is willing but not able to guarantee the free time.
To Ralf, I do agree that the refereeing situation in future is not getting better unless we take action. What suggestions do we all have related to this subject? Who must bare the possible costs from these suggestions?

The ICF exists by the will of the affiliated federations. The federations have granted Japan the World Championships. It is up to us all that these Worlds will have a good participation, both by teams, referees, supporters and all others involved. We all together decide where the Worlds take part; I believe that we all have to go for it!

Frits
ICF CPC

[Odo]

Dear Frits,

I found the information that I was seeking. Your response was appreciated ! It is a very welcome fact that you do watch the activity on this site ... it must help to give you a perspective on the issues of players at all levels.

With regards to the arrangement of refereeing at Worlds, I no longer participate on the US committee, but would like to give my opinion from a player's perspective ...

It seems to make sense that the ICF or the Organizing Committee should make all arrangements for refereeing. The associated expenses could be rolled into the competition entry fees, and spread evenly amongst the participating countries. Of course there are potential issues with this. Some that I can think of right away are :

Funding only the referees may result in inequity with handling of other officals ... scrutineers, timekeepers, etc.
It might be difficult to accurately predict the overall costs when setting the entry fees - travel expenses can vary dramatically over time.
Initially, there will be a perception that the entry fees are increasing.
On the other hand, one benefit of the current arrangement, where each participating Nation is responsible for providing referees, is that there is more of an onus on the National federations to support the development of quality referees. It has even got me thinking that I should pursue assessment in Miyoshi.

By the way, Curly, I can think of one scenario that is even worse than "... miss GB games on pitch one to referee on pitch 4." and that would be missing GB play on pitch 1 because you're reffing right beside it on pitch 2 ... that would be excruciating ! :D

Regards to All !
John O'D.

[SongPeng]

:) yes!! i do agree that ICF should do something about referee's payroll..
there are 2 ICF qualify referee in Malaysia.. me and Mel.. we (hopefully) will follow the team to japan if there is a malaysia team to japan.... but haven't been confirm yet.. as we will have a commettee meeting this 24 April to discuss about it....

In malaysia we do pay the referee for his work in game in each tournament.. not much .. about RM25 per game( USD 6.5, depend on the budget of organisal..) how many games you ref then how many pay u will get.. also i agree with Odo that the pay could be rolled into the competition entry fees. and those team who can't provide the referee could pay extra entry fees.. pay less if team referee is present..

hope it will help.. have a nice day..
p/s Odo i will let u know the timetable for malaysia tournament if i got any information from organiser..

SongPeng

[Swaney]

I think there should be a group of the 'top' referees from around the world who go over to Japan as a group. Then the games would be managed with the same understanding ...

Although Mike has a good point about costs in bringin non-players over ...

[Dion]

Hi All,

I'm one of the Hong Kong referees, we would like to know will ICF organises any referee's examination in the Japan WC?

And does any one can give me some advice of what should I going to prepare if I would like to undertake the exam???

Thank you for the kind attention!!!

I hope I can see you all in the Japan WC

[BJ_6]

I think it would be nice to give the referees some kind of money to get to Japan, becouse now I can't go (Belgium is not there). But if they want to pay us, does the mony have to come from the players? Or from the federations (Belgium has got no money for a team, so absolutely non for other things)?


I think it isn 't easy to find a solution for all refs and federations. I hope I ever get enough money to do the same like Curley and lynn and folow the game werever it will go (I 've got a lot of respect for refs like them).

Sorry for mine Englisch!

Greetz

Bjorn
Belgium U21 and one of the two ICF's we 've got.