North American League Structure

[JW Lester]

I believe that until North America forms a league structure of some sort, Kayak Polo will languish in it's current state. Outside of preparation for Worlds and the National Championship tournaments, there is not enough incentive for improvement.

I've heard that various proposals for leagues have been discussed by USACK and the Canadian Comittee - but to me it makes much more sense to join forces. Why split up the few teams we have into exclusive "National" leagues?

Now of course the distance between teams is so great and the costs so high, that it doesn't make sense at this time to have a fully "Continental" league where all teams play each other.

Rather, I think we need to foster more "local" competition between teams that are close enough to have regular (ie 4-6 times/year) matches that count for something. The regional tournaments that have started up in California, Texas and New England, and Alberta are a great start. It seems to me, that these regional tournaments should form the basis of a North American Kayak Polo League.

It might make sense to have 4 Conferences -
Northern (AB, SK, YK, (BC?))
West Coast (WA, CA, (UT?, BC?))
Central West (CO, TX, (UT?))
Eastern (MA, NY, MD, ON, QB).

(Some teams such as those from Utah or British Columbia could choose a division based on travel costs)
Also if a division ended up with only 1 or 2 teams, then those teams could choose to join a different division (ie. if UT joined the WCC and CO did not enter, then TX could join the EC, NC or WCC).

Each of these conferences could then send a champion (or two teams if desired to make a total of 8 teams) to a "Playoff" tournament which would crown a NAKPL champion.

Just an idea for discussion. Hopefully there are some more ideas out there.

John L.

PS I know I'm leaving the country - but I'd like to have a cool league to come back to when I return!!!!! :thumbup:

[tyler]

My oppinion may not count for much but I think that forming regional leauges and sending there champions to a continental final (or somewher there abouts) sound like a great idea. I seem to remember alberta haveing sme sort of provincial leauge/group of tournaments and it worked prety well ...as far as I can remember.

:twocents:

[-AC]

What's the point? The distance to travel is still to great to over come within these conferences. You need to grow the number of teams playing regular polo before to can start something like this. Walk before you run.

[Patrick]

Originally posted by -AC
What's the point? The distance to travel is still to great to over come within these conferences. You need to grow the number of teams playing regular polo before to can start something like this. Walk before you run.

What would be considered a reasonable distance to travel?

A somewhat rhetorical question since is certainly depends on the individual as some are willing to fly cross country and internationally to play while others can't be bothered with a two hour car drive.

What does it mean to have to have a "number of teams playing regular polo"? It seems you have a great and vibrant league going on in Fort Collins and yet fielded no teams and last year's Nationals. Was this a distance issue? And if folks won't travel for Nationals they probably won't travel for much else.

Maybe, as I think has been stated, it might be an issue of "build it and they will come". I'm not sure but I'm also not clear about your "What's the point?". If they occur and are attended then they've succeeded.

I'm wondering what your solution/suggestion might be to these proposed Regional Tourneys.

Thanks,

[JW Lester]

I see what both of you are saying.

First of all, in some areas of the country where whitewater is more popular, it can conflict with kayak polo events and cause some teams to find it difficult to attend during peak times. The old club in Sacramento had trouble fielding a team in the Nationals they hosted at least in part for that reason. Places like Coloroado and Utah have almost purely snowmelt whitewater kayaking and therefore anything planned for polo during their short seasons won't draw much attendance.

This was in part why Nationals was moved to fall last year.

There are some teams that are pretty geographically isolated - Salt Lake, Colorado and Texas, which are really too far for people to drive to tournaments. That said, we saw the guys from Gig Harbor, WA show up at Nationals last year, and the SLC club played well in their first competition recenty in LA.

One solution would be to start the league out with some smaller "divisions".

For instance, Vancouver, Seattle, and Gig Harbour could form a "Pacific Northwest" division rather than competing with the California teams. If Colorado has 10 teams in their own league, perhaps they could simply send their "champion". This would require other areas like Texas and Salt Lake to either do the same or compete in more far-flung divisions.

Aside from dividing up things so much that the "league" ends up not really bringing teams together much, the problem with really small divisions is that the "usual" teams would dominate.

Perhaps a solution for that would be to limit the number of "elite" players and/or to require co-ed teams for a limited period of time while the league forms. While there seems to be enough men to form some kind of league, in most areas forming women's leagues doesn't look possible yet.

By splitting up the most powerful teams for the first few years, the league would be a little more competitive.... if not at the highest level .

Hopefully more people will share their opinions here - I'm sure there are a lot of other good ideas out there.

[Patrick]

Originally posted by JW Lester
Rather, I think we need to foster more "local" competition between teams that are close enough to have regular (ie 4-6 times/year) matches that count for something. The regional tournaments that have started up in California, Texas and New England, and Alberta are a great start. It seems to me, that these regional tournaments should form the basis of a North American Kayak Polo League.

John, I agree with the fostering more "local" competition notion. Clearly we have had a steady schedule of tourneys on the West Coast for the past couple of years and the East seems to have developed a healthy schedule themselves.

As you know our West Coast tourneys don't count for anything, except a ton of fun. This is important though. We have also, as you still know, had tourneys with clubs competing against each other and tourneys where we mix and match so that all teams playing are relatively evenly matched. This too has been generally a success. And we here on the West Coast, god you know everything, have had somewhere between 3-5 tourneys a year although we're hoping to have 6 regular tourneys a year (3 in L.A., 2 in San Diego and 1 in San Francisco).

I think it would be a mistake to make all of our tournaments matter (i.e. count for some sort of National standing). But I do think it might be good to have one of the annual tourneys mean something (i.e. declare a West Coast Champ). Personally, I'm hoping for our L.A. "Cup of the South" (or whatever it may eventually be called) to be held the first weekend in December to be such an event. That's just my hope. No official word on this.

Then perhaps the East Coast, with there burgeoning tourney schedule, could signify one of their competitions as a "meaningful" event.

The trick next is how to get the further flung clubs, as you've stated, involved.

If the Colorado folk are interested in the long-term national level of things, I think it would be great if their league champ was the region rep since they have such a large winter-long competition.

Since we were just host to Salt Lake City we'd love them to return for all of our tourneys and hopefully for the one(s) that "matter".

Texas and the real "south" should, in my mind, be considered its own region and if they've only got one team then that's what it is until other teams from Texas and other neighboring states develop a tourney system similar to what's going on the both coasts.

Anyway, I'm glad you brought this issue up.

[-AC]

Well, Patrick let me try again and clear it up for you. My solution is simple, have no regional leagues. Is that clear enough for you?

I just don't think at this time, there are enough teams to be dividing the North American Continent into leagues. If you wish to have tournament then have an open invitational. Invite everyone. At the tournament on the West coast did anyone invite MKP?

As for Colorado: MKP does so well do to the hard work of one person. That person has put in a lot of time and their own money. Coupled with their leadership ability made that league work so well.

Patrick you are also making an assumption that Colorado folks want to have National level play. This may not be true. There may be some interest, but when it comes down to it. No one wants to spend the time, money, or do the organization of getting a team together and travel so far. I can't blame them for not wanting too. Maybe some folks just like to play for the fun.

[JW Lester]

What I was referring to in the OP is that if we want to improve the standard of polo in N. America, then those people who DO want to make a commitment to the sport need an opportunity for more meaningful competition on an ongoing basis. The way to win tournaments is to play in as many tournaments as you can.

I don't think a league need involve all the clubs there are - and I'd assume that some clubs would not participate (certainly the original set of states/provinces was really more or less a pipe dream that I assumed wouldn't happen any time soon). That said, just as most (if not all) of the current tournaments in N. America are Open tournaments - any league should be as inclusive as possible.

I think to be meaningful, there needs to be several "league" events in each region every year. In the case of California, perhaps each club would host one "league" event each year as part of the tournament series? In the beginning, the N.A. league could have a fairly loose structure - essentially taking the what we have already in the various active regions and overlaying a league structure to give the competitions a little more meaning.

In time, I think clubs outside the system would see "the point", and might start participating.

:lepr: Happy St. Patrick's day!!!!

[Marty]

Hi all,

I agree with the point that until we play more polo "best on best" we're not going to get better as fast as we might wish. Distance and cost of travel for people AND boats is bad for most central locations - Canada and US.

You should take a look at the New Zealand National League format - seems to working well - the top teams are now competing and beating some of the top Aussie teams.

Here is CO we are slowely ramping up play and commitment (we ALMOST had a real training session last week - and we've had some polo boats only comps!). I hope we'll get to a west coast comp and the nationals, with both men and women's teams. But we'll see what happens when the rivers flow...

FWI: I disagree that teams should be mixed- if folks want that for their team, they should be allow, but it should not be forced.

Cheers, Marty

[Monica]

Hey Marty, how's that CO team coming? Does anyone know the approx. date for Nat's next year? All I have heard was that we should expect it sometime after Worlds. Any idea? And where at in CO is it going to be? Or am I just totally off the mark here...

:)
Monica.

[squashed gopher]

i believe that there is a similar question asked by keegan ....aka mrkeeg

david lamb thought that US Nats 2006 might be the first weekend of september