World Championships 2002, kayak specs

[Tony Björnström]

Hello out there.

Is there any official list of which Canoe Polo kayaks are legal of using in the World Championships 2002, essen germany.

Or is the best way to measure by our selves and hope the srcutineering done by ICF is of the same opinion as us.

We are hoping to use Eskimo Gecko.

/Best regards Tony Björnström

[scroll]

I think exkimo gekko is legal to use. We use it in the competition. But it is'nt carbon/kevlar or anything like that, is it?

greet scroll

[Samba]

It's plastic...
What does it matter?
I tought playing with rotobat...
:silly:

-Samba

[Samba]

Hello Tony!

I think there can't be any official list for legal poloboats.
If somebody makes new polo model, it couldn't be used right away...
I think, that list for banned models could be possible, due some models aren't legal anymore 'cause the rules change.
But I haven't heard from such eather...

-Samba
:cool:

[Deaviator]

The Brithish Canoe Polo peeps have such a list - I don't know how correct/up_to_date it us but it's in the back of the year book. I'll try and hunt a copy down!

Matt

[The Fly]

I think same way than Samba.... If there is a list, it is not official, or is it? My opinion is that every boat wich obey rules (in relation to Boat), is legal. Am I wrong?:rolleyes:

[Deaviator]

If it stands up to scrutiny under the rules detailed below, then it's fine...

http://www.canoepolo.org.uk/pages/8.htm

assuming it's up-to-date???

Matt

[tcrees]

...as posted here on these forums:

http://www.canoepolo.com/forum/rules.php?s=&page=6#kayak

and variuos other places on the web, including the british link given earlier.

Just wanted to make the point that the Brits don't define what the specifcations are - the ICF does! ;)

Cheers, Tristan.

[clyde]

No there isn't a list.
Yes there could be easily.

The normal way this works at a major championships is that they are checking that the boat is safe - just like all the other kit.

In practical terms there is very little of the boat they can actually check at a major championships - Length, Width, Weight, Depth, bumpers.

This is because most boats have an external seem which would get in the way of the guages which are used to measure the fine details of if the boat is designed within the spec of the rules.

Here in Britian we have a group of people who check new boat designs. These are not checked at competitions, it's the design we check (without a seem). If it conforms to the ICF spec, then the model and make of the boat is added to the list of approved boats for use in British Canoe Union (BCU) event.
This is not an ICF test although we use the exact ICF specifications.

The Eskimo is not on the BCU Canoe Polo Committee list.

[JW Lester]

Clyde> The Eskimo is not on the BCU Canoe Polo Committee list.

Is this because it does not conform or because it has not been tested?

:confused:

John

[Samba]

Hello Clyde!

I assume that the british boat list contains allowed boats, not forbidden boats!?
Does the system work?
'cause I think that it could be easier to make a list from those boats that don't comply with the rules...

-Samba

[scroll]

According to the www.kanoshop.nl site is the Gecko legal to the rules. (sorry for the non duchspeaking).


I've made a boat list but it's NOT official. Please Check it out and let me Know what boats i've forgot. Maybe there are illegal boats on it. But i don't know it

Go to www.kajakpolo-lokeren.yucom.be (Dutch or English it doesn't matter)

GReets

[becks.c]

So there isn't an official list of ICF approved designs?

I took a new NZ designed kayak to Brazil in 2000 and it passed scrutineering: I can understand that this scrutineering pass was only applicable for the tournament, BUT the sticker put on my boat read:

"ICF approved"

so go figure...
It wasn't until sometime after the event, that I discovered technically the design of my boat still wasn't ICF approved

Please excuse me if I am mixing up terminology here, but its seems strange that a boat can be passed at a world championship, but still not be an ICF certified design.

There doesn't seem to be info available from the ICF websites on how to get a design approved.

I think most of us want our sport to develop, perhaps the proceedure for getting a boat certified could be improved?

An obvious suggestion is to have manufacturers submit plans of their designs to scrutineers? (however this could potentially be a hot topic due to the sensitive nature of some designs)

Any other ideas? Or could an ICF official clarify the current proceedure

????:confused:

[PeQu]

What do you need that list for?? You can allways take your rules and check your boat. All the fiberboats are handmade and so individuals... etc. all Revenge boats don't be within rules.
:p

-Pekka

[jagularen]

Hello

Thats an interesting aspect, PeQu.

If I want to buy a boat directly from any manufactor, you must go to the factory with your gauges and measure to be sure. Or else you can end up with a sailing boat. :thumbdown .

:D nice! Thats what I call feeling for quality !

[RB-Ex-MrPolo]

Sorry. I admit it. I wrote the first ICF specs for polo kayaks.

And they were dreadful. But that was because the British (well, one person) were unreasonable and insisted on their rules or none at all ! Despite the fact that their actual rules were completely ambiguous. I did the best I could writing a set of unambiguous specs based on these horrors.

However, the basic British specs made for a nightmare from then on ! I had to scrutineer so many new designs, handcrafted boats etc over the next 10 years. Some builderws could meet the design rules Ok, some kept forgetting to allow for shrinkage in mould and kayak. And, like Clyde, some thought the seam was not counted in the rules. (Of course the seem must pass the rules!)

When I was Cheif Scrutineer for the 1996 Worlds in Adelaide, I found that approximately 90% of all kayaks did not meet the letter of the rules, and had to negotiate to allow for a "Reasonable" approach.

Ironically, the only team that had all kayaks pass first time was the Indonesian team. The team was basically an Army team. They just read the specs and built kayaks to meet the specs. Simple.

Now, if they can do it, with no polo experience, why can't the rest of the world ?? Perhaps because they are not tainted by the belief that is common in polo that the rules are so hard to comply with.

Meanwhile, the ICF is still messing about trying to change (well, in reality, trying to delay for ever) the specs. Around 1992 I submitted a change of specs, reducing the whole set of specs to about 2 sides of A4 paper, and far, far easier to scrutineer.

As to having an approved / unapproved list of designs - we tried it in Australia, but basically to no avail. Not just so many modified kayaks that look like the orignal design, but no longer meet specs. But also even 2 kayaks out of the same mould can vary - one passing, one not. Different materials, different joining method etc being the most common problem, distorting the join / seam. If you store your kayak with weight on top of it (as is common on commercial airlines!!), it can come out fatter, with out of spec sides!

No alternative but to check each and every kayak at World Championships. And you have to check them yourselves before you leave home, and again before scrutineering. And make it meet specs.

Basically. Stop trying to build to the exact millimetre. Allow a tiny amount of leeway in the design. Your performance loss will be minute. Your peace of mind about scrutineering will be greatly improved.