15° Italian International Canoa Polo Invitation Tournament

[the deacon]

On the 10th and 11th of July, we shall be organizing our 15° International at San Giorgio di Nogaro, Udine, Italy for the Men's Category only.
This meeting is to celebrate the 25 years of canoe polo activity in Italy; the first International Tournament organized then by the Natisone Kayak Club, was held in 1979 in Manzano, Udine.
The CUS Canoa Polo Team from the nearby University of Udine has now taken on the task of continuing the organization of this fine event.
The games shall be open to the partecipation of 16 teams will be played on two pitches.
For further information on how to enter the competition, please contact the club at the following email address.
CUScanoapolo@libero.it
:cheers:

[the deacon]

Sorry Guys,
The image was too large, so here's another, I do hope it will open alright
:stupid:

[Nidge]

When you say "men's" do you mean 'open', or would a team that included women players- or was a wholly women's team - be turned down?

This isn't so much a 'we're likely to enter a team' kind of query, more an attempt to get a handle on the way the Italian teams think about Canoe Polo.

Nidge

[the deacon]

Nidge,
The tournament is for one category only, that is for a complete Men's team, not mixed.
:cheers:

[Curly]

Nidge, I think you will find that the ICF does not recognise "mixed" competitions in any of the disciplines. Throughout the world most federations reflect this by holding Mens, Womens, Junior Men and Junior Womens competitions.

It is the UK which is out of step, holding "open" and "ladies" competitions, I'm sure some other federations do too, but not sure who.

not sure if this helps
curly

[michielv]

As it is, in the Netherlands we only have a open and junior (<18) competition, with the open competition being open to anybody (male, female, as long as you're over 12 years old).

This is due to a lack of players, if we would split up in different competitions (men, women, junior, students, ?) we could not have any decent competition at all.

[Nidge]

.....now I'm really puzzled (see Curly's post above).


At most 'Internationals' which aren't restricted only to National squads, its pretty much a commonplace to find mixed teams, even some wholly womens teams, playing in Open.

And these tournaments are, so the organisers say, being played under ICF rules.


Nidge

[Alan Vessey]

Nigel, without trying to put you down, what Internationals have you been to? Liverpool, Hull (both UK so would except British league rules) and Ieper, where they probably do the same as the dutch due to lack of teams/players.

You go to France, Germany, Italy you are not allowed to have women in your 'open' team, we werent allowed to have Ginny play for us in the European clubs or at Caen (unoffical European clubs)

With regard to 'played to ICF rules', over here would refer to the rules of play.

[Nidge]

Hey! You missed London Alan :eek:
............ mind, you *did* answer the question.


That said, it still seems a very perverse way to do things to my mind set 'though.

I *can* see the logic in having ring-fenced events to enable women and younger (.... and hey why not other endangered species such as geriatrics (yeah, like :bunny: me)) players to get a series of games at which they can be more evenly matched and competitive.

What I find difficult to understand is why the women are excluded compulsorily from playing at whatever standard they're up to.

A young male (eligible to play in say youth or under 21s) wouldn't be excluded. So I'm just sort of baffled why some places make a distinction which treats some players different and less favourably.


Nidge

[Curly]

It looks as if I have failed to convey my major points sucessfully. Try again:

1. This is not a polo issue. When in my original post I refered to ICF I meant the "international canoe federation".

2. They do not allow for mixed competitions in any discipline. Indeed I think mixed competions are expressly not allowed.

3. Some federations (for example and) including The BCU have decided that they will allow open categories. Those federations that do not are following ICF rules and not making the concious decision of disallowing mixed participation

[the deacon]

We are not making an issue of not inviting mixed teams. we have always organised this tournament with just category, Men's.
On the other hand, as travelling abroad to tournaments around Europe is not cheap, even if the visiting teams drive to their destinations relatively cheaply, to cut down expenses, or those who can have the money to fly out to save on long travelling time; at times not all the members of the team manage to do so, and they have to find some substitutes to make the squad, so I personally would not make an issue of it, if a couple of the reserve players were feminine.
At times, they make the difference of the team partecipating abroad or not.
And I do not think that other players in the tournament would have a problem with it either.
The main 5 players of the team however should be of the category in question.
Any further comments on this debate?
:cheers:

[Nidge]

To be honest Reza you are aware of the local sensitivities and far better placed than I am to know what will work and what won't.

From that I think the approach you indicate ~ asking for the 'top line' of the entry form to be valid with 5 men listed and then having everyone agreeing to 'turn a blind eye' to teams fielding women players may well be the most pragmatic solution in the circumstances and the best way around the restriction of the framework of federation rules which your club can't alter and has to work within.

Its obvious that you guys are actually keen to get everyone involved and not exclude anyone.

I think that's great and I hope you're rewarded with the increased number of entries I reckon you deserve for taking that position.

Hell, if the team(s) could both get organised and afford it I'd be happy to glue false moustaches on our women players :p and come and get our not so competent asses kicked in some nice Italian sunshine.




In contrast, I think the ICF rules (outlined above by Curly) are wrong in principle and, frankly, offensive because they are *unfairly* discriminatory.
Or would anyone like to argue that offering Open rather than closed events is unfair?

Nidge

Ummm........ If the ICF *is* going to change the lead's got to come from somewhere.
Should Polo take that lead?

[the deacon]

To tell you the truth Nidge,
Even though the Zurich Fair Play tournament held last year was just one category game, one of the local teams did use a couple of girls in their line-up, and not one of the present teams complained.
On Sunday, when it was our very unexperienced club's turn to play that same team however, we were matched against a 5 man team, with no women in the line-up.
A pity. as we thought that this was at least one match we could have better odds with .....! :bfire:
It was obvious that the girls (bless them) were standing in for the men who were unavailable Saturday.
On the other hand, even in a tournament in Cervia, Italy, last year, we played against an Italian team with both men and woman in the line-up.
And we found out the team was mixed only after we were into the game and at close quarters !!!
So it seems this is the "unofficial" way of making some compromise to the game.
:cheers:

[79Fede79]

Hi everyone!
This is our new image of tournament.
We have some places yet.:welcome:
http://utenti.lycos.it/canoapoloudine/POSTER%20internet.jpg
Come on...write us soon!!!
Fede. :cheers:

mail: CUScanoapolo@libero.it

[paolo]

What teams are taking part in this tournament!?

[fede]

What teams are taking part in this tournament!?
Italian teams, ZURICH, MERIDIAN, RIJNLAND, and yours....?

[valérie]

I'm not totally agree with Alan, in france only the organisers of tournement of Caen exclude women (because they want to win their own tournement and woman against the men is a bad publicity for canoe polo) It's not what you think the same people don't agree with according uk rules for france.
But Acigne international tournement have a woman category and accept woman in the First division.

I've play to Fribourg tournement(Suisse), Ieper(woman category exist), dikkebus (woman category exist), Veurne,Acigné (France) Amsterdam (9years before), and last week to Madrid. All those tournement, i've play with men team in First or Second division.
Why not in Italy?
Maybe italian men are to strong but not french or Switzerland or belgium or spain or dutch men??????

[Fede]

Get in touch with the organisers and see if they will accept your partecipation.
For my point of view, I think that they will accept your entry. In this man's world it is very nice to see a ladies team kick some male ass, and show them that they are not less than the "other sex" at sports.



I'm not totally agree with Alan, in france only the organisers of tournement of Caen exclude women (because they want to win their own tournement and woman against the men is a bad publicity for canoe polo) It's not what you think the same people don't agree with according uk rules for france.
But Acigne international tournement have a woman category and accept woman in the First division.

I've play to Fribourg tournement(Suisse), Ieper(woman category exist), dikkebus (woman category exist), Veurne,Acigné (France) Amsterdam (9years before), and last week to Madrid. All those tournement, i've play with men team in First or Second division.
Why not in Italy?
Maybe italian men are to strong but not french or Switzerland or belgium or spain or dutch men??????

[dona]

can you say us what team are there to the competition please?????

[the deacon]

can you say us what team are there to the competition please?????Some of the teams who have will be at the competition are Meridian from the U.K., Zurich from Switzerland, Rijnland from Holland, some Hungarian teams and many Italian teams, of yet.
Also, according to Jeremy Rozes from your team, he has written to say that your team will be coming too.

[dona]

yes sure because i am Jeremy Rozes so we are coming to your competition

[the deacon]

The names of the teams partecipating at this years 15th International to be held this coming weekend at San Giorgio di Nogaro, Udine, Italy are:
1. CUS CANOA POLO UDINE, Italy
2. CANOA SAN GIORGIO A, Italy
3. CANOA SAN GIORGIO B, Italy
4. A.S. MARINER ROMA, Italy
5. A.S. INDIANA CLUB ROME, Italy
6. C.N. BARDOLINO, Italy
7. A.K. TREVISO, Italy
8. MERIDIAN, U.K.
9. SUD OUEST, France
10. DE ZWETPLASSERS, Holland
11. HUNGARIAN NATIONAL TEAM A, Hungary
12. HUNGARIAN NATIONAL TEAM B, Hungary
13. KSI, Hungary
14. LNT, Hungary

[the deacon]

Here are the full results of the 15th Italian International which were held at San Giorgio di Nogaro, Italy, on the 10th/11th of July 2004.
Even though there was absence in organising this tournament for the past 12 years, there was a good response from the 14 teams who came from around Europe, to play together in Italy, to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the sport of canoe polo.
The Franco Baschirotto Challenge Trophy, was won by the Series A team from Italy, A.S.MARINER, who defeated the Hungarian National Team HUNGARY A, in the Final, with the score of 7-3.
Runner's up were MERIDIAN, who defeated CANOA SAN GIORGIO A, with the score of 9-1.

[BigD]

It has been some time ago, but I only saw the topic today!!!

San Giorgio was great tournament, the atmosphere and the hospitality of the club is wonderful and it is really a well organized tournament. It's a shame that the strongest Italian teams did not participate, because the tournament deserves that. Well, maybe next year.

Anyway we had a good time and for us it was a great start of our holiday. We had such a good time btw that I was amazed to see in the final results that we managed to rank 8th, because most of the time we were too much in holiday
:p spirits :rolleyes: to really be into the games themselves.