Teams for US nats?

[sp_edey]

So what's deal with US nats? How many clubs are going? WWK is in I'm sure. Also who's all going to down to Teewana midweek for some drinking. :cheers:
Come to Teewanna if ya wanna :cool:
Clinton

[sp_edey]

Is there going to be anybody driving down. Especially if there's lots of us its cheaper. I was wondering for the the nats could people that are u21 be entered in Club A and the u21 division? We have more then enough u21s going I'm sure.
:bfire:
Clinton

[KAP]

Hey Speedey, I'm pretty sure that it's spelled Tiajuana, not Teewana. This might help solve any confusion that anyone might have. Plus, rumor has it that there is an ultra cool zoo down there. If we have time to kill we are going to go and watch the monkeys fight.

[shooter]

Hey guys,

I think there will be a bunch of EWP youth driving down with the OB's. I'm not sure what the Edmonton teams are going to be, I think EWP will be able to field one Club A team, but I don't think we will have two.

If I'm able to go, I'll be with Clinton. I'd rather party it up in Mexico then watch some rabid animals fight.

Later
Andrew

[KAP]

What if we watched rabid animals fight in Mexico? We could go see a **** fight or something.

[KAP]

Sorry about the edit. I guess they don't like that word. It's supposed to say rooster, only spelt with a "C".

[lambdapro]

Players may play on U21 and Club A or B or women's teams. We are going to limit our newbies to one team, but the experienced players will end up on a couple of teams.

David Lamb
TX Tornadoes

[sp_edey]

Ok then who's interested in entering a u21 team for this? I'd really like to get one organized with the Canadian team or other up and coming youth that are going, if no one minds.

Clinton

[sp_edey]

Ok, I just got some info on US Nats and people playing in Club A can only play in that division only. So I guess I can't play U21. :mad: I'm looking forward to see some younger Canadian players to come down there with us though. See everyone next weekend.
Clinton

[KAP]

Hey Clint, what if we only played U21? That would work to. Personally I think it may be wiser to enter in club A. We need to beet that team from San Fransisco. It's really annoying how they keep on beating us.

[sp_edey]

Hey kyle,

I don't know what to do for this. I'd like to play U21 but I really want to take the Welsh and SF to school :matrix: Also I'm still not if I should play with the Pola Bears or Wapiti. Help me out here, I need some guidence. :rolleyes: But forgetting about all that stuff I just want to play some polo! :headbang:

Later Clinton

[Albert]

Originally posted by KAP
We need to beet that team from San Fransisco. It's really annoying how they keep on beating us.

The average age for the SF team this last time is about 36 much older than you young tykes and a few years older than before. Sasha brought our ave way down.

Perhaps you should try some of our training routines:

- Stressing out about finances & work.
- Raising Kids
- Passing out after work.
- Fixing things around the house
- Drinking prune juice
- Enjoying all the problems of adult life...

:sleep:

Sergey even has a walker! We all have seen him push it around. No lie! I think his arm muscles benefit from using it on his frequent trips to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

You better hurry and beat us soon, else we go into retirement and start playing Bingo.

albert
#12 SF, CA
Goalie (So I can just sit there, not paddle and wait for the action to get back to me)

[lambdapro]

Clinton, check out this link:
2003 U.S. Nationals (http://www.uskayakpolonationals.org/)
It only says that you cannot be on Club A and Club B. What was the source of your information about U21 and Club A? We want to correct that misinformation.

David Lamb

[mrkeeg]

I think I was Clinton's source, and mine was an email from Katherine Macey. I hope she won't mind me quoting her here - and my appologies if we misunderstood eachother somewhere along the line:

"The restriction we have is that Open A players cannot play on any other
team. Therefore you could play U21 and Open B."


-Keegan (quoting Katherine)

[lambdapro]

I have posted the question in our USKAYAKPOLOCOMMITTEE discussion group, but have not gotten a reply. Here is the section from the invitation:

The competition:

The competition is open to all club teams in the United States. Teams from other countries may enter, but they will be ghosted from the final standings. Individuals may enter, to be organized into teams by the competition organizers.



The following categories will be allowed:

Open A

Open B

Women

U21



Players may not play in Open A and Open B.

I will push strongly that this simple restriction remain.

David Lamb
Manager, U.S. U21 Kayak Polo Teams

[lambdapro]

BTW, this would be a change from last year. Brian Carroll played on a Club A team as well as our Tornadoes team.

David

[lambdapro]

I just got this from Katherine Macey, USCPC.

Sorry for the confusion. The web site was not updated after the committee meeting. I hadn't double checked that it had been done.

It now reads as the committee wished - Players in Open A may not play in any other team; other players may play in two divisions but this is not encouraged.

If you could post a reply in canoeforums to that effect - or send me the link to the post so I can, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
Katherine.

So, the women and U21s who happen to play well enough to be on a good team are screwed.

David

[Patrick]

Originally posted by lambdapro
So, the women and U21s who happen to play well enough to be on a good team are screwed.

I don't really follow why they would be "screwed". Could you clarify?

[Brad]

I think he meant that if a young person or women was good enough to play up but still wanted to play with their U21 team or womens team they would not be able to.
I can understand the frustration there, especially when you have some people on the borderline and they could benefit from playing in both categories.
Myself, I support everyone playing in one division. I only get to play in one division, why should it be different for younger or weaker players?
Quite often it is the more elite players doing a lot of the work for the competitions and usually, in Canada at least, they play the least number of games.
In many tournaments the other paddlers from my club end up playing twice as many games as me, I find it really frustrating cause I believe I need to play lots more games to improve significantly and they could just come to more practises and improve.
Just my two cents.
BC

[Patrick]

Brad,

I hear what you're saying. I'm in the same situation as you are. I just don't see the limitation as "screwing" some folks. I think some players actually diminish their game to game play by playing on too many teams. Of course, no one wants to travel long distances to play just a few games. It's a balancing act, I believe, in an attempt to give all teams and players enough games to make their traveling worthwhile and to ensure the best polo is played game to game.

Also, just my two cents.

[Brad]

I agree with you completely! The funny part is that with the exception of this past year (we hosted Nationals) I do most of the travelling and the least amount of playing.
I like that the younger people get to play together and get to play up with us when appropriate, but I really don't like when they come and talk about how tired they are and that they don't really want to play again when I am dying to play again and have no option to do so.
The other thing to consider is that many of the people getting to play in multiple divisions don't always train as much as the elite men and don't have the fitness to play that much, and as you said their game play does diminish over the course of the day.
I know I have no say in any of this, but I do feel like I vented a little.
Thank-you! :thumbup:
BC

[JW Lester]

I also have to agree. Not only does it create an imbalance with how much people get to play, but it also makes scheduling games difficult.

I don't really see how people are "screwed", aside from the fact that there really isn't much competition in the U-21 or Junior divisions anyway, and players that only entered those divisions wouldn't get much (or varied) play.

Perhaps the U-21s could do as they did back in Edmonton after the last Cup of the Americas and arrange to play some games outside of the main tournament? I think the LA folks mentioned that the venue will be available that week (right Patrick?).

Of course that would depend on how many get arrested south of the border... Lets just hope the guards are gentle with them.

[lambdapro]

I see it from the U21 side. What I see is that the "stars" of the U21 teams, say Sasha, Brian, Alan, Clinton, ... play as team members of a Club A team. So now the leaders of their respective U21 clubs are removed and the U21 teams are not the best that can be fielded.

Realize the difference that each of these players bring to their U21 team versus their Club A team.

My $0.02.

David

[Patrick]

David,

I see your point. And it certainly puts certain U21s in the position of having to choose which team they will play on. But, I think the decision to have Open A players only participate in Open A games is partly to ensure that the games for the Open A (usually all male but not a requirement) be as competitive as possible (i.e. players aren't exhausted from playing too many games and don't play their best polo).

But, for this Nationals, if a particularly talented U21 wants to compete on their U21 squad, he or she can still play on a Women's team or an Open B squad. Although this is not encouraged it is certainly an option. And it seems that some clubs this year may not choose to participate in the Open A division and will enter some very formidable Open B squads so games there may be quite tough.

It's tough to choose to play in the Open A division but isn't that the point? To make it a challenging, very competitive division? As the sport grows and more U21s pick up the game I'm sure the U21 division will become quite competitive on its own and this issue won't be that much of a problem in the future.

On a side note, I'm reminded of a talented middle distance runner here at UCLA. She qualified for both the 800m and 1500m races at the NCAA National Championships. Her decision was to either run both races (held rather close in time to each other) and risk a possible diminished performance in one of her races, or to choose one race and miss out on the opportunity to possibly medal in two events. She chose to run one race. A tough decision Im sure.

Just my 4 cents now.

[KAP]

I played in the U21 division for quite a while, and if have experience the level of play of over sea's U21 teams. What I think the team would need to do is figure out if they want to compete internationally at a high level, or more locally at the slightly lower level. If everyone on the team was keen on eventually playing at a top level, I would strongly recomend playing in the top level. The best way to move forward is to be schooled. Our U21 team experienced it at worlds, and everyone's level increased dramatically. The best way to figure out where the U21's should play, is by figuring out what they want to accomplish in their own polo "career" if you will.

KAP

[Patrick]

Originally posted by JW Lester
Perhaps the U-21s could do as they did back in Edmonton after the last Cup of the Americas and arrange to play some games outside of the main tournament? I think the LA folks mentioned that the venue will be available that week (right Patrick?).


According to Katherine Macey the venue is available. She will have to work out a schedule with all the teams (US, Canadian). Charges for pool time will be $30 per hour.

[KAP]

Does anyone know if teams from South America are to be expected at this year's Continental Cup. Brazil wasn't in Edmonton, but I believe that they were in LA in '99. It would be great if more Countries participated in the event.

[sp_edey]

It seems that they showed some interest, but I'm really the wrong person to tell you Kyle. It doesn't seem their entered in any divisions yet or else you'd think some of them would be replying their thoughts here, Eh? I think for the Club A there's only allowed ten teams in it anyway, I think. I'll double check, because there already 11. It will call for some good competition but that would be unfortunate if teams couldn't enter because of too many entries.

Clinton

[Patrick]

Originally posted by sp_edey
I think for the Club A there's only allowed ten teams in it anyway, I think. I'll double check, because there already 11.

Clinton, just wondering where you might be gathering the info that there are 11 teams already entered. Thanks.

[sp_edey]

Off the 'who's there' thread in your area under usa. John posted that info. :sleep:

[Patrick]

Clinton,

Thanks.

Originally posted by JW Lester
From what I've heard you'll also see:

2 Teams from New England
Baltimore/Washington
Austin
Texas Tornadoes
San Diego
Los Angeles
Golden Gate


Just so folks understand, these are teams that we all hope will register for Nationals. Not all these teams may enter in the Open A division.

To date, the only teams that have formally registered for Nationals are:

UCLA Bruins
Boston Fried Lobsters
Boston Half Baked Lobsters
California Tsunamis (Under 21)

I hope that clears things up for some folk. I know I was concerned when I heard we already had 11 teams signed up.

[sp_edey]

I'm sorry for getting to far ahead here with predicting teams. I'm just really anxious to see what the competition is going to be, and people's thoughts.

Again I'm sorry for saying who's coming and such. :reindeer:

[Patrick]

Originally posted by sp_edey
I'm sorry for getting to far ahead here with predicting teams. I'm just really anxious to see what the competition is going to be, and people's thoughts.

Again I'm sorry for saying who's coming and such. :reindeer:

Clinton,

No need to apologize. I'm excited about the tournament as well. I only wanted to clear up things before folks started to misinterpret stuff and then some other folk would start getting bent out of shape because ... yada, yada, yada ...

Anyway, we here in So Cal are looking forward to a great turnout in ALL divisions for Nationals, a great week of training and then another great turnout for America's Cup.

Come on down. :welcome:

[sp_edey]

Ha, I'm already half way there. :wavey:

Don't tell me none of you are coming to party with us in Mexico for a couple days in the midweek? I have never really had a chance to sit and enjoy the south, so I am going to be touring a lot more then I should. Don't worry though, I won't let my team down. Right Brad? :thumbup:

Clinton