Rule 6 - Centre Line restart

[troy]

Rule Change I oppose – I'd like to see these rules stay as they are - promoting goal-line restarts but outlining the ICF variation as an alternative.

This defines both rules for both but promotes goal-line restarts which are more spectacular and avoids wasting more playing time. I also reject the argument that goal-line restarts are unfair or mismatched teams – I argue that weaker teams have more ikelihood of progressing further when they have the chance to mingle throughout the opposition rather than approaching a solid wall of defence at half-way, and that it is less frustrating than carrying the ball back to halfway only to loose it straight away there. Either way they have the same chance of crossing halfway!

[vish]

Rule Change Issue-

In a close game, and in a competitive fast game, you have to consider
whether the ball was properly presented at all and whether the restart was
fair. There can be games where this is very difficult to judge, particularly
when an incident is occuring further up the pool while we wait for the
actual game to restart on the goal line.

I also feel that the goal line restart does not teach players how to
properly attack against an organised defence, and I was personally
frustrated at the World Champs because of this.

[becks.c]

I think goal line restarts increase the pace of the game, particularly in the lower level games. However I have seen weaker teams pinned in their own halves because they are unable to move the ball out from under their own goal.

I'm not sure how centre-line vs goal line restarts would suit novice players - it would be interesting to have input from those who referee novice players, or novice players themselves

I think it would be beneficial for our inter-club competition to utilise centre-line restarts. At that level players should have the discpline to move up to centre-line restarts after a goal. Centre-line restarts would also give players the opportunity to develop strategies based on the centre line restarts.

[Juno]

Why should we be different, once again having a rule that is different to the majority of the rest of the world promotes a different style of play which does not enhance our ability to be competitive at international competition. If teams are wasting time by not returning to the centre line quickly, who are they advantaging and if a team is gaining an unfair advantage or stopping the other team from restarting the referee should award an infringement

[Nick B]

I agree with Troy here as it is a much better game for spectators to watch and also for the speed and intensity of the game.
However, I do believe that it is important that national players are practised playing centreline restarts in real competition. I think it would be a good option to play goal line restarts for National League and centre line restarts for Inter-Regionals

[Juno]

I think there is no real advantage at a novice level whether you restart the game at the centre line or the goal line, having played both restart options as a novice player when I first started it basically came down to where you got the ball off the weaker team, pressing on the goal line or on the centre line and getting the ball back is there any real difference. We need to decide at a top level where the start will occur and let that be the same for the lower levels. I think that goal line restarts will develop a better style of play internationally as we will be able to break a press on a turn over more efficintly and as long as at training camps we practice centreline starts, I see no problem when it comes to international competition, I can't remember having any problems on tour last year.

[Jac]

I like Nick's comments on playing NL as goal line restarts and centre line restarts for inter-regionals. It would mean that we get the practice at centre line restarts for international comps... it is quite hard when you have to constantly remind team mates (who have never played centre lines before) to stop at half way.

[Jac]

Also: centre line restarts at Worlds, the games were still a fast thrilling spectacle and there was almost no mucking around at the centre line, I think the only reason that we think that it slows the game down is because we are not used to it....

[Kris]

As someone who has refereed many many novice games with a goal line restart ( a lot of games with 10 - 12 year olds) I'll put in my contribution!
I don't see goal line restarts as a problem even with a noticeable difference between teams. In our winter season games we encourage very strong teams to drop back past half way when they score, so the weaker team will least get the ball to half way. If you had a centre restart, then the ball would probably turn over much quicker, and the weaker team wouldn't handle the ball so much. Weaker teams also don't stay weak for very long when they have practice at defending around the goal and can pass up to half way.
The issue of weak vs strong teams can also be dealt with in other ways, such as seeding teams of a comparable ability against each other. This is much easier to do if you have quite a few teams of similar ability or lots of novice teams starting at once!!!
:music:

[Jenni Gadd]

I think the rules should be changed to centre-line restarts.

This is how the game is played internationally and it is no slower than goal-line restarts once you get used to it and when refs aren't being pedantic about where you have to start. I found centre-line restarts to be plenty fast enough at worlds, as soon as a goal was scored the defence would race back to their end and once they were over halfway the refs would generally blow the whistle.
In my opinion its only slow in NZ because we aren't used to it and the refs wait until the ball is exactly up to the centreline.

Then again, goal-line restarts are quite fun too....but i think they should be for club leagues only.

[vish]

I think one of the points mentioned on this topic so far is that, at the referee's discretion, players are encouraged to "leave" a weaker team in their half as though it were a centreline restart. I find this inconsistent.

It is kind, it is fair, and it is practical, but it isn't part of the rules, and we shouldn't have to modify the rules like that if they work. The rules are meant to be fair and practical in the first place.

I don't think the issue of "spectacle" has been adequately discussed. Is it clear when a goal has been scored? Not unless there is always a visible scoreboard. Is it easy to communicate with an inattentive scorebench when you are supposed to be watching the game, to ensure that the score is accurate for spectators, when there is no visible break in play? No, it isn't. That's when we have to stop time etc etc. Can spectators who have never seen a game before, easily read the referee's signals? No, they can't. And in some cases, those signals are pretty crap anyway. So as far as being more spectacular, I would agree, if you think constant flurry and scrappy play is most entertaining for spectators. I think quality action is what I would be looking for.

So, what would centre line restarts do?
1. Bring our interpretation of the game more into line with ICF rules
2. Give a visible "change in state" to spectators that confirms a goal has been scored
3. Provide opportunities for referees to communicate effectively with other officials
4. Give teams the opportunity to shoot from a restart if a team was silly enough to press at halfway
5. Force teams to bring the ball to the goal, rather than lurking under it and just waiting for their team to lob the ball at them after the other team gets a shot in
6. Give weaker teams the opportunity to at least set their zone or defence without having to rely on the grace of the opposition
7. Provide much needed emphasis on bringing the ball through a set/organised defence
8. Remove the need for charged timeouts, because there is a change in pace that allows the captain to communicate a revised plan of attack or reevaluate.

They won't necessarily slow the game down, but we as referees need to make sure that we let the game continue at a nice pace. By the way, I've certainly been pedantic about centre restarts in the past but that was primarily because people were hopeless at it. People had the attitude that they would just sit right in front of the player taking the restart and see if they can get away with it. That happens ALL THE TIME with goal line restarts and people get really annoyed with being called up for it.

Oh and I do enjoy goal line restarts, but I feel they are training appropriate.

[Unregistered]

So we are back playing the old rule again. I found it ok when we use to play by it but it did slow the game down a bit if the teams were not on to it and forgot to get the ball or did a bad throw towards the centre. But on the good side teams get a chance to re set up and try things differently. I don't mind which way is played they both have good and bad things about them both.

Wayne.

[SeanT]

I'm a fan of the goal line restart, its a faster restart with no input from the ref in most cases.
There is no reason for there to be any more difficullty with ball presentation etc on this restart than on any other in the game. It also means teams can't commit wholly on offense without exposing themselves to some risk. The argument about centerline restart allowing you to build an offense against a set defense more is probably only valid if the team that just scored has a crap defense. Exactly the same skills are required to defend against a goal line restart and a turnover in that area of the pool, so you can't argue that the skills learnt from covering this situation aren't impt
As for the spectators, if they can't see the ball went in the goal I not sure what they were watching!
Having said my piece I can see that playing ICF would take some adapting to for representative teams, however theres a bit more to polo in NZ than just rep players and feel changing to ICF restart would be a step back. Maybe Nicks soluton wouldn't be unreasonable

[vashti]

An interesting point to this is that our current jostling rule requires definition, at the moment, about which end of the court would be considered jostling. According to goal line restarts, as soon as the other team gets the ball from a goal, you can jostle yourself into position again because you are in the 6m zone attempting to gain possession and therefore a goal.... so if an opposition player paddles over the top of you to get out of the zone to attack, when their team has the ball, are they charging?

Is it easy to restart the game when a player doesn't have to be 3m away from you in the first place? How many times do people call up an illegal restart because of aggressive defence on a goal line restart?

It is not "exactly the same set of skills". A restart from the goal line is a counter attack that requires a fast break against an unset defence. They are disadvantaged in that their kayaks are turned the opposite way to where they want to go and the opposition can get a second or two advantage over them. A restart from the centreline requires an offence against a set defence where the other team is already in position and able to observe your strategy as you advance. Counter-attack should not be given precedence over straight attack. You need both skills in equal measure and they are both important.

You suggest spectators are always easily able to ascertain there was a goal scored- how many legal goal frames do we have in NZ? They don't resemble an ICF goal frame structure at all. How many refs do we have to see if the goal is scored? Why do we have someone on the line and another watching from 6m or further away? How many visible score boards are there in the country, and how many are on display during a game?

Reverting to centreline restart is not a step back. Staying on goal line restart because of a National lack of ability on centreline restarts is, especially where the majority of NZ is unable to play this start effectively when the rest of the World takes it for granted.

[SeanT]

How hard is it to restart the game when a player doesn't have to be 3 m away? No harder than when taking any other free throw in the game.
How many times do people call up an illegal restart because of aggressive defense on a goal line restart? Not often personally. If this is a problem in a particular area it is very easily fixed by effective refereeing eg education / warnings / cards for rpt infringement and will soon settle down. I don't recall this being a prominent problem in ChCh.
Nowhere have I suggested that the skills defending against a centre court restart and goal line restart are the same. Clearly as you say one involves a preset defense while the other involves defense against a fast break style of attack initially, dropping into a set defense when you have managed to effctively cover. What I actually said was that defense against a goal line restart is the same as defense against an attack started from the initial defensive team turning over the ball around their goaline area, eg as in a blocked shot.
It is my opinion that its not difficult for someone watching the game to see that a goal has been scored in the vast majority of cases. Sure there are times when it can be a bit tricky but this is mainly when trying to ascertain whether the whole of the balls gone through the plane of the front of the frame. This issue can only be got around by having an impartial observer (ie ref) making the call (and signalling appropriately) but this discussion really has no relevance to where we restart afterwards. Surely of more importance is having the goal netted in such a away as to make the vast marjority of goals easily seen for all. I don't think theres a problem with the goals in ChCh with respect to legality relevent to this dicussion, the nets were a bit worn toward the end of last year but are in the process of being replaced. If there is a problem with goals not being able to be clearly seen elsewhere by spectators and refs as appears to be suggested this makes a bit of a joke of the whole game. It needs to be clear to all that a goal has been scored by the ball going into the goal and refs signal. How much of a spectacle is the game if the spectators need to say " oh their all going to half way, someone must have scored"
How many refs? 2 Why different positions? different perspectives enable a better overall veiw of the game, including goals but also many other facets.
Scoreboards? ChCh has a BIG one that sometimes goes! I agree we could certainly improve this area. but don't really see that we need to alter the restart rule for this reason.
In my opinion, as I said yesterday, reverting to centerline restarts would be a step back. The reson I believe this has nothing to do with a "national lack of ability" in this area. I have played both restart styles for many years each and find that goal line restarts add to the game significantly, to me! There have been no arguments presented that I feel will be solved by a change is this rule. To the vast majority of polo players in NZ a perceived lack of ability in this area is of no relevence as they don't play those rules. For internationally competing players experience with center restarts would be desirable, Nicks idea wouldn't be a bad one
Nothing personal, just my opinion

[Owen]

I would like to see centre line restarts in the national league, inter regionals but keep them out of all other competitions. From what I see from other replys, this is what most of the top players want. I have read all the different responses or points of view but still think that our top players should be playing centre line restarts, just like all the worlds top players!!!!!why should we be different.