What do people want?

[George]

Hi everyone
Just looking for some feedback/ideas on what everyone is looking for from polo.
Is it just fun/is it for the competition? Is it the team thing or do 'you' want to be the best? Are you willing to help others or just yourself?
What would you like to do to get better/what would you be prepared to do (honestly now:rolleyes:). What would you like to see happening.
Please, lets try and keep things on a positive vibe.

[Chris Redmond]

Fun and competition

Wish stirling could get a regular team to improve

Always willing to help

Train more to improve/find the time

Permanent pitch created at Airthrey Loch, lots more teams in polo, more indoor venues for comps (obviously difficult to achieve)

[alison_b016]

Competition.

Good training sessions which means playing games is fun.

Get more women playing polo and more training sessions with mens/mixed teams where proper training takes place -drills, games, refereeing.

basically make all training sessions as productive as our squad sessions have been. :D

[The Bug]

Hi i am willing to offer some sort of coaching if it involves general polo drills. ( thats whats wrong in my opinion of polo today, the basic skills are not of a high enough standard, everybody just wants to play games.)

[bigriverboater]

Good thread george

I play polo both for fun and for the competition. I am willing to help in any way, even helping in organizing a mens squad to match the womens one.
Definetely agree with the other posts about more structured training but it is hard to find venues and times that suit everyone.
Stirling loch is good but a training facility that had the ability to have land based referees would be ideal and even the possibility of floodlights that would make winter training possible as well.
Also with the decline of suitable pools to have competetions i would like to see summer outdoor leauges created. By doing this you could bring all 3 divisions together on one or two days. Because polo is such a small sport in scotland it would make sense to have everyone together in the one place at the same time. This would bring a creative atmosphere to competitions and would be good fun as well. Hope these thoughts help and as i said i am willing to help out in any way possible.

[Chris Redmond]

in replacement of the current winter one??? or as an addition?

I would support the summer league idea but then again that has its problems with people being available/venue issues im sure

[bigriverboater]

if there was enough interest then the runnin a summer league in addition to a winter one would be good but cant see that happenin so would go for a direct replacement.Def agree that it would be hard to find times that suit everyone but could be achievable.

Im sure that 3 dates over the summer months could be found. They could possibly run in tournament fashion with each one having 3 divisions and a final at the end of each one. Then a fourth tournament could be organized which could either be used as a play off / league decider OR could be incorporated as the scottish champs with the results of the previos tournaments deciding on your seeding for the champs.
This idea maybe a little far fetched but think it would def improve the scottish game.

[Chris Redmond]

Not so far fetched. Heres what ive worked out. Please check my maths and let me know what you think.

4 Sunday or Saturday (March-June?!?) competitions at Falkirk Wheel

10am-7pm - 9 hours playing time
2 pitches - 18 hours playing time

Total playing time - 18 x 4 = 72 Hours (total playing hours this season 63)

This was based on the current level of teams at the end of the season. e.g. Div 1 = 9 teams, Div 2 = 9 teams, Div 3 = 7 teams (total teams 25)

and

Div 1 - 6 tournamnets, Div 2 - 6 tournaments and Div 3 - 2 tournaments
(Total tournaments 14)

So:
Tournament 1 - Div 1 and Div 2
Tournament 2 - Div 2 and Div 3
Tournament 3 - Div 3 and Div 1
Tournament 4 - Div 1 and Div 2
Tournament 5 - Scottish Champs
(potentially this gives the equalivalent of 6-div1, 6-div 2 and 4-div 3 tournaments in the current system)

Hope that makes sense! I realise that this suggestion has alot of issues such as money, set up problems, getting all those dates at wheel, weather, change to number of teams, lenght of day etc.

[George]

I like the thinking.

Getting all the teams there as per the split idea that Chris puts forward is good. We have discussed this in the past but were always restricted by pool time. If we were to have possibly half the tourneys outside then this might be an option.
It makes sense. All the other items are just things that we would need to look into once we get a better idea of where to head.

My own feeling is if we were to drop the winter tournaments this may leave some clubs with no easily controlable activity for the younger/less experienced members. I do think there is room for both.
Wether it is more informal or leagues. This gives clubs the chance to continue paddling through the darker months and gives a point to all those pool sessions. It helps develop many skills which are transferable to other areas of canoeing.

One of the issues that always seems to effect us in some way is the exam times, any ideas around this would be good.
I also think it is important to have a break also to give people a chance to recharge.

Keep the thinking hats on, this is good feedback

Thanks

[Chris Redmond]

winter friendly comps?

with regards to exams maybe 2 tournaments (per division) indoors winter(Nov, Dec) and 4 outside (completed in two days) (March, April) with Scot champs in June

Gives a break in season and avoids exams i think:confused:

[Polo Boy]

I know i sound like a broken record but some sort of youth training i think would benefit not just the individuals but the sport itself.

:confused:

[alison_b016]

Robbie, you should get yourself to some of the other training sessions that are going on around Scotland, its good to train with other people.

maybe you should try and set up some infomal training sessions with some of the other youths that are playing - even playing friendly games.

Remember squads are expected to attend all training sessions and do extra sessions on and off the water (women are doing between 3-4 water sessions at the moment plus our own training. And during january in the lead up to our trials we trained 6 days a week on the water and at the gym.)

Might be a good idea to test out who from the youths is willing to put the commitment in before approaching the SCA polo committee about putting the youth thing together.

[Polo Boy]

I know thats all well and good but to be honast i dont think any of the youths have a) the orginisational skills, or b) the nessesary knowledge on how to train properly.
I dont know how it would all work but i feel that maybe if more was offered i know that several players from Stirling alone would be more than intrested.
This is in no way a rant at anyone, as there are many problem with getting time to train and find people who can teach under 18's but i would be wiling to help as much as i could.

[Hibrace]

Can't actually leave it to the youths to organise.

1. Lack of coaching skills
2. Lack of transport most youths don't drive.
3. Lack of BCU coach/safety/disclosure etc...
4. Participation levels are such that youth training needs co-ordination if we are to advance, most clubs only have a handful of youths.
5. Lack of experience in running, organising , financing tournaments.
6. Inability to spell.


I could go on. If we wish the game to grow we need seniors to think about giving more to the game we love. This is not getting at those who are already working hard for polo, as I am aware of the how much a dwindling group of paddlers give of their time to keep polo ticking over, what we need is more people to commit to helping out.

Small summer tournaments (4-6) teams would help. Venues are the key!

Youth are the future of the game.

[George]

Welldone Highbrace.

I asked for feedback about where to go, not a lesson in the obvious. I do however note your last point.

Thanks for highlighting the few who are still trying to keep things moving.

1. Coaching is not required when getting on the water and developing their own fitness would make a huge difference. Get out and paddle more! It would benifit more than just the kids :D.

2.Getting to training - most youths have bikes dont they? Why dont they organise with other clubs persons who could keep/deliver their boats when required.
I could go on to say about the old days when people just did what it took. But I will spare you as I only know stories as I'm far too young :rolleyes:
Ask your parents if they ever had to get the bus or cycle to get to training.

3. This is more club politics making it nearly impossible to administer due to the lack of BCU coaching qualifications.

4.I agree with this point, but, it should only be co-ordinated centrally so clubs/individuals work towards the same goals.

5.Don't know why you think they would be asked to do any of these.

6.Personally, I blame the teachers.

I have to agree with the earlier posting about just getting on with it. It is becoming more apparent that some look to blame other factors, rather than getting on with it.

Thanks go to polo boy for keeping things positive.

Youths (sorry oldies)

Firstly ask where you want to go in polo.
Is it to be the club superstar?
Is it to get to a Scotish champs final?
Is it to play abroad?
Is it to make a scottish team?
Is it to go all out and get to GB squad level.
It's all out there.
Show people you are interested by putting up. The help is out there you just have to ask. Take control of where you want to be.

The rest 'will' happen.

Get positive about 'your' own future.

[Hibrace]

Thought point 6 was a bit brave...guess Meg isn't back yet.:thumbdown

After a great w/end at the Falkirk wheel I really think more of the same....granted weather was exceptional but the banter, crack and polo was good.:thumbup:

Give the youths more of that and who knows someone without a pension book might one day make it into the final!!!!:D

The BCU coaching scheme is not helping, at present changeover seems designed to make it harder and costlier for the club volunteer to stay a coach. These are the very people who could support the polo player coach develop the youth.:(

As for where I think I should go ...aim youth squad member would be an exceptional goal!:eek:

[alison_b016]

Nice to see the youths being so enthusiastic about polo. :thumbup:

I'm going away at the beginning of the summer holidays but I'll be back by the end of july.

I'll be doing training sessions during the day and anyone that wants to join in will be more than welcome. - probably sprints and drills on the water and running around the loch at stirling.

Will post up on the forum when I return so we could organise some sessions.

[cityslicker]

More Falkirk wheel, great venue.:wavey:

How about themed training nights for developing the 'polo coach'.

Forward paddling...sprinting.

The defense jostle.

The art of holding on to the ball.

Training games and developing skills.

100 things you can do with a polo ball.

Then let the coaches return to the clubs armed with new skills!

[cath1]

The BCU coaching scheme is not helping, at present changeover seems designed to make it harder and costlier for the club volunteer to stay a coach. These are the very people who could support the polo player coach develop the youth.:(



I know this is a bit off topic (sorry George!) but I have to disagree with this. I think the new coaching scheme is designed to supply coaches with generic coaching skills and therefor provide paddlers with better equiped coaches and more chance of development.

The fact that you have to start as a level one coach now is a bit of a pain but it does actually make more sense. There is funding available for club coaches as well so that's no excuse!

As far as making it harder to stay a coach I'm no expert but I was under the impression that a coach just has to be able to show that they are developing themselves every couple of years whether that is doing a bit of training(kayaky or unkayaky) or going to a conferrence etc. At the end of the day if you don't take the time to improve your skills then they won't get better and they won't stay the same...

Transitional periods are always difficult and I think that saying a system which has been in place for such a short time "isn't helping" is a bit odd. Give it time and try to approach it with an open mind and prhaps we'll start to see the benefits in a few years.

Wow have I been brainwashed by the BCU???? I do apologise rant over

As for what I want ("I won' tha one") I'm really enjoyiing training and looking forward to competing over the summer. I want to see my personal skill level develop; I want to see the teams that I play for progress whether that is divisional leagues with Glagow or with team CAACK and I enjoy coaching and I'd like to improve at it. To do that I need to take every oportunity I can to get in a boat, be more proactive about organising training sessions for Glasgow and play lots and lots and lots of games!

[Hibrace]

Way off topic but serious point happy to argue out on another forum! Think you have been truely brainwashed:eek:

[cath1]

Perhaps, but the point that I was trying to get accross is that trite anti-BCU comments aren't always helpful or more importantly accurate. I could hav saved everyone the thousand word essay if I'd said that in the first place! :)

[Polo Boy]

Well.... im just going to try and keep away from BCU conflict as i realy at this point have no idea.

Personally, from Geroges opptions of what we want to achieve... i would honastly say if i can i would want to go all the way for the GB squad... skills and fittness permiting obviously.

After the champs I have had another injection of enthuseasim for the sport and am now willing to do as much as i can to improve my skills, but also i want to really grow the sport.

So anybody going training i will be more than happy to join the :D

[Hibrace]

Any other ideas!

[alison_b016]

Quoting Chris's post:

4 Sunday or Saturday (March-June?!?) competitions at Falkirk Wheel

March is pretty cold in Scotland - I don't mind the cold - I've broken the ice on several occassions this year to train, don't know how many other people are as crazy as me and would want to play in the cold.

I like the leagues over the winter, you can play in the dark and stay warm and it gives the uni's chance to join in. Judging from the uni girls who are in the women's squad, March to June is a busy time for people and they can't always commit themselves to full weekends. It would be a shame if the uni's no longer could commit to playing in the leagues.

It would be fun to have 'friendly' weekends where teams go and compete against each other so that you get to play teams from the leagues more than twice in a year and get some inter-league play.

It might also be an idea for enthusiastic people to start entering the English Leagues - I have enjoyed playing in div 2 ladies, playing new teams in larger pools and getting to play women's polo. Div 4 north might be a league some people might want to consider entering.

Just a few thoughts :)

[Polo Boy]

I'd love to! Who wants to form a team? Any takers?:thumbup:

[George]

Just to clarify an earlier point.
I was not having a poke at the UKCC, I personally feel they are a bit misguided towards the volunteer. I was mearly refering to the origional polo coaching qaulifications. They were not exactly cutting edge and were never developed. The comittee (BCU) felt it was best to wait to see how the UKCC qualifications panned out.

[Seedy Paddler]

One problem with discussing this on here is that it will largely generate responses from those already committed and not necesarily those from those who may be interested in entering the sport.

Generally recognised as 3 levels - 1/ Participation 2/ Development 3/ Performance

In terms of Scottish Canoe Polo I suspect that most Div 1/2 will be at the development stage, those interested or past players in national leagues would be regarded as performance. If we want to grow the sport back to it's heyday (circa late '80s early '90s) then we need to get more entrants and push the participation.

One problem with current set-ups is that we need to commit to a number of events over a period. Trying to get and keep a team willing to commit to 4 ot 6 dates per year can be difficult. Particularly when they have no real experience of what Polo is. I would suggest we need to encourage more one day tournaments aimed at entry level. Limit the entry play a one day tournament with the results the same day. Experience from within our Club is that this will generate much more interest, once enough interest and motiviation is reached the potential to move onto the Div 1/2 structures becomes more of a draw.

At this years Div 3 we re-entered a team for the first time in a number of years, over the two dates we utilised 9 different players this meant that 50% of the team changed from one session to the next. Given that some were trying Polo for the first time and others after a long lay-off (retirement) it was difficult top get into the finer details of tactics and plays. It would also have been unsustainable had we to continue for 4-6 tournaments.

Other aspects is to develop a central pool of equipment that may be available for entrant level competitions. Thankfully we still had the old kit but even then we were told off for playing in illegal helmets (looks like the Ace helmets will have to be binned) and borrowed during the second session. Some Clubs have no experience of Polo and no Polo equipment, we cannot always rely on those who do participate being willing to lend their gear to others. This could be through the Polo Committee or similar establishing a friends of Scottish Polo group that could apply for Lottery funding etc. George, you and I have discussed this in the past - I believe the case still exists, but it requires to look wider than the current active players and lose the politics of envy. Hopefully you can avoid the pitfalls of the Slalom boats and ensure that the kit is available for all to use in entry competitions, training and developments sessions.

It would also help if there were some basic info packs to assist in what is required. As well as the Ace helmets we were told off for not wearing T-shirts, but then a high proportion of the Div 3 players didn't have T-shirts either. All very well to have the ICF and BCU rules available as download but entrants won't read them (and old farts scan for changes and miss half of them!).

For the higher levels then squad developments would assist - particularly in youth/junior progress but that will require support with coaching and management from senior players or parents. It may also be expensive - again "Friends of Polo" may be able to generate lottery funding to assist.

For the main I would countenance against a strong focus on development squads as that will perpetuate the insular and minority aspects of the sport. Look to organise some wider entry level day events and encourage wider participation and then distill out focus groups to elite groups to provide sustainable pyramid devleopment.

Unlike Cath I don't view the UKCC as being any form of panacea or support to Polo development. Some of the initial concepts are excellent but it has degenerated into sport specific window dressing and the BCU drive is based solely on the views and requirements for the commercial outdoor market. Club coaches are being treated with total disdain to the point that the old SI/Level 3 qualification that has been the mainstay of the sport for decades is on the point of obscurity and abandondment. The costs for the new qualifications will be a tenfold increase on the old system and the net result may be regression of Club coaching to a point sometime in the early '70s.

Anyway - the key basis for development of the sport - Have Fun :wavey:

[Polo Boy]

Thats some really good points... i have never thought bout all of that:)

Shows u how good this thread is.

[Chris Redmond]

your dad has a big part to play in bringing lotsa of new people especially to Stirling Canoe Club but also associated uni's

Stirling and FCAG supply almost a quarter of the teams in the three divisions!

[Polo Boy]

Yeah... but hes one guy... every club and really everybody should be doing their bit to promote polo with new people old or young :cool:

[Nick (Scots)]

I'm a teacher, don't blame me:o, but want to :)start:) a Canoe Polo club at my workplace, we get a new build school in Dec. and wish to utilise the pool at night.


Some points to consider from the chalk face, so to speak.

Unfortuantely since the pay deal in 2001, we have a lot of after school meetings which eliminate time for VOLUNTEERING for extra curric. activites with kids. This, sadly, has led to a vast reduction in Clubs run by teachers, and away day trips.
Outdoor Learning is rarely valued by Local Authorites
Hockey, football, Cheerleading and rugby get full time development officers and funding in my council.
Politically teachers have to justify outdoor sports not the above
Canoeing tends to be smaller ratios for safety so Management can bin theses activites.
Cover Teacher budgets are very tight so it's almost impossible to get of school for events or training courses
HMI are looking for results, results, results and not other whole child experiences and outcomes (eg canoe polo).
Independant and Private schools Managment are supportive of out of classroom activites such as Polo.
But.....hopefully the new 'Curriculum for Excellence', starting Aug 09, and the compulsory Outdoor Ed. Week soon to be law for under 14s, will allow myself and other teachers to start and coach kids thru polo etc.

So if anyone knows any funding avenues for me to start a grass roots canoe polo club a my school:D, boats and PFDs, helmets etc then please PM me or post, I have not disclosed my school/employer.

I have been an Outdoor Ed instructor before teaching and taught five of the curent Olympic development Sailing squad UK sailers when they were 5yrs old ! Inc. voluntary coaching.

Thanks

Nick

PS You may see me with a school grp at the paddlefest.:cool:

PPS I ran a climbing club at school for ten years, every wek all year, then the management introduced 40p a mile minibus charge so the club folded.

[George]

Hi Nick

Great to hear you are starting a polo team.

I met you a few weeks back at the canal.

I can tell you that we (polo comittee) now have 12 polo boats, we are putting together the kit to match and a trailer. This equipment is mainly for the development of clubs/kids who are looking to start playing.
This will give clubs the chance to try things out before going to the expense of all the gear. There may be a small charge dependant on where and who wants the kit. (For all you forum watchers, the details of this will be available soon).
It will also be available for the beginner comps (div 3) and any development workshops.

I am looking to start up a schools competition similar to the Fife youth league which ran a few years back. This gave a perfect avenue for kids who wanted to take up the sport. It was also a great fun way to develop canoe skills in a controlled environment.

You can pm me if you would like to organise things.

[Hibrace]

Welcome Nick. As with George PM me and I will give advise or tuppence worth. We have a club at McLaren High and also link with local canoe club. School club has been on the go for 15 years so have survived despite .........

[Nick (Scots)]

Ok, once I have spoken to my 'Outdoor learning' chaps vis a vis Risk Asses. etc I'll get back to you. How soon till the kit is available for a come and try it session ?

Was up Ben Lawers with Fiona and John today, lotsa snow at the top.

Nick

[Hibrace]

PM me risk assessment can probably give you basics! Which school/area are you in?
PS want to pit your team against McLaren....:D

[Nick (Scots)]

As the new school has perm. lifeguards the OL will probably give me 'local accreditation' for pools only, or ask for Canoe Safety Test or Foundation one.

Yes we can do a Match, :)once I'm setup. Need to get Funding for baots etc as well. I can get council funding up to 5K.

Where/how do you get funding ?

Nick

[Josh McInnes]

Fun, competiton and banter.

both. i want to help the team but also want me to go forward.

helping others helps u:D

id be willin to go to more trainin sessions and paddle more.:surfing:

Id like to see more tornaments. maybe a summer league (outdoors:viking:) aswell as a winter one. more stuff like scottish champs, . more sessions.

also, when u guys are talkin about youth sessions, some of us are happy to go but we cant drive and we dont all hav boats. the monday nights are good because the equipment is there for us. if someone could bring the stuff on the days, more of us would go (i think:thumbup:)